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zzz
eyedeekay, github i2p.www 25 days behind
eyedeekay
Ack, I'll track down a cause and get them to sync back up
zzz
thx
zzz
anybody have thoughts on the tor/tails hookup?
eyedeekay
I'm not sure what they have to gain from it really. I get why they care about bundling with TBB, they need things Mozilla isn't ready for and need a pipeline to get those things to Mozilla. Inconvenient, but true enough.
eyedeekay
I don't really get it with TAILS though, much TAILS functionality doesn't require that level of integration and involves applications that are much less complex(thunderbird notwithstanding)
eyedeekay
The "Amnesiac" and "Live" parts of the acronym have nothing to do with Tor at all
zzz
tails/intrigeri reasons pretty obvious; he said as much. offload the HR/finance/management stuff
zzz
I'm trying to understand why tor would do it
eyedeekay
Yeah same
zzz
tails apparently wasn't a real nonprofit, they were taking donations via riseup (US 501c3) and a DE nonprofit
zzz
what does tor need? devs and $$$/BTC. my guess is tails had a surplus of one or the other
eyedeekay
In some circles(reddit) TAILS is considered the go-to Tor onboarding tool, which could make it a "too big to fail" thing too?
zzz
good point, maybe tor wanted more control of what's essentially a big 'downstream'
dr|z3d
I think Tor's interest lies in having a goto distro they can reference.
dr|z3d
And they've been informally working with Tails before it was Tails.
eyedeekay
Yeah the conversation usually goes to the effect of "If you're concerned about Windows failing to protect your privacy, TAILS is designed to accomodate your use-case"
zzz
regardless of any other reasons, the money had to work
dr|z3d
I'm sure it works for Tails.
zzz
I mean for tor
dr|z3d
As for Tor, I don't get the impression they're short of cash, irrespective of their regular donation drives.
zzz
either tails is taking in more than they're spending, or they're going to move tails ppl to work on tor
dr|z3d
If anything, I get the impression they're "donate to Tor, save the world" campaigns are just a PR exercise to make people forget they're mostly gov funded.
dr|z3d
*their
dr|z3d
anyways, an OS is just a natural extension of the browser, if you think about it.
dr|z3d
first it was just a daemon with a minimal control ui, then we got vidalia, then they dropped vidalia and adopted firefox.
RN
I miss vidalia
dr|z3d
I'm not sure if the two are related, but when the Vidalia lead dev starting collaborating with the fbi to decloak Tor users, I vaguely recall Vidalia disappearing not long after.
dr|z3d
*started
RN
hmmm
eyedeekay
Huh, I didn't know about that
RN
still miss the function it provided but if it was potentially compromised then RIP
dr|z3d
techworm.net/2016/04/ex-tor-developer-helped-fbi-creating-malware-unmask-anonymous-tor-users.html
zzz
actually the govt funding is more like 50%, and their stated goal is to reduce that, so the tails income flow may dilute it significantly
eyedeekay
Oh that makes sense, prior to TBB there were a ton of ways to very rapidly degrade anonymity by exploiting the underlying browser, obviously flash didn't obey the rules, neither did WebRTC at first
eyedeekay
one doesn't exactly follow the other as such "vidalia dies, long live TBB" but filtering-based anti-fingerprinting strategies were about to be doomed by more widespread HTTPS deployment too
eyedeekay
And eventually you have to move the controller into the browser to make the model of identity the proxy uses match the model of identity the browser uses
dr|z3d
Vidalia wasn't doing much in the way of security mitigation iirc, it was mostly just a monitoring UI.
eyedeekay
It also controlled rotation of identities
eyedeekay
Or could
dr|z3d
yeah, it had something just beyond what the current Tor browser had in terms of control.
RN
and a map function for the network or specific tunnel
eyedeekay
By design, Tor Browser's trying to make the expectations consistent all the way through the stack, if a tab is unaware of another tab, the proxy should use a different identity
dr|z3d
that's just tinsel in the scheme of things :)
dr|z3d
the map, that is.
RN
yep, but I liked the tinsel
RN
;)
RN
I'd be satisfied with a "new tunnel" button.... for standalone Tor without tbb
dr|z3d
you got one. it's called service tor reload :)
eyedeekay
Better choice is probably torsocks for that, it will normally pass a string which identifies the client to Tor
eyedeekay
torsocks --isolate
RN
service reload restarts everything though, I don't want to interrupt hidden service tunnels and such just to change the tunnel for browsing
RN
--isolate doesn't help when the browser is on a different machine from Tor
RN
just my use case though...
dr|z3d
there are a bunch of torrc configs to control circuit isolation.
RN
s/--isolate/torsocks/
dr|z3d
IsolateClientProtocol, IsolateDestPort, IsolateDestAddress etc.
dr|z3d
and don't forget MaxCircuitDirtiness if you want to rotate exits faster.
eyedeekay
I suppose I should probably point out that a lot of this isolation stuff Tor does is what I want to give us with Prop166
RN
that sounds familiar, I may have skimmed that one a while ago
eyedeekay
Yeah it's essentially applying IsolateDestAddress at the i2ptunnel level
eyedeekay
then the addendum tells you(roughly) how to emulate --isolate with torsocks and an I2P socks proxy by spinning them up ad-hoc
eyedeekay
And nailing down and disabling proxy escapes is one of the goals(the most important) of i2p.plugins.firefox
eyedeekay
^ which is in turn a beneficiary of TBB because they tend to find the proxy escapes and/or be the ones to fix them
orignal
zzz how many HolePunch messages do you send?
orignal
and when do you stop? When receive sessiion request?
orignal
also looks like your resend RelayReponse not as regular SSU2 messages even in established session
orignal
could you check if your always send HolePunch and RelayResponse simultenously even for resends?