~dr|z3d
@RN
@RN_
@StormyCloud
@T3s|4
@T3s|4_
@eyedeekay
@not_bob
@orignal
@postman
@zzz
%Liorar
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+bak83
+cancername
+cumlord
+hk
+poriori
+profetikla
+uop23ip
Arch
DeltaOreo
FreeRider
Irc2PGuest15271
Irc2PGuest28511
Irc2PGuest64530
Meow
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Onn4l7h
Onn4|7h
acetone_
anon4
anu3
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stopMakingRefugees
Hi all
dr|z3d
hi, stopMakingRefugees, welcome to #saltR
stopMakingRefugees
Have found what was stopping me from accessing tracker2.postman.i2p
stopMakingRefugees
It was issue with the notbob host file notbob.i2p/hosts-all.txt
dr|z3d
maybe notbob's list still has the old dsa address.
dr|z3d
that's to say, postman was until recently operating a dual-address service, so if you accessed the old (DSA) address you'd get forwarded to the new address. no longer. the old address has been retired.
zzz
dunno why postman did that, but notbob is indeed publishing the ElG address, and those two combined leads to this result
dr|z3d
ordinarily you shouldn't encounter the issue, at least not with i2p or i2p+, because they come with the new address in the default hosts list.
zzz
s/ElG/DSA/
dr|z3d
postman did that because of the ongoing issues he was having with dual dests, possibly in relation to subdbs, but I think he just had enough of the hassle.
dr|z3d
not_bob_afk: make sure you've got the new addresses for postman in your hosts lists.
zzz
sure, but for the rest, both postman and notbob have made mistakes that together lead to this
dr|z3d
irc.postman, hq.postman, tracker2.postman, smtp.postman, pop3.postman.
zzz
not just postman
dr|z3d
in java-land, auto-purge of the old address when redirected to the new address would be handy, though it's probably a bit of work.
dr|z3d
obviously for freeAssange it's not going to help, because it sounds like he's on i2pd.
dr|z3d
maybe we can put something out there to inform people to purge all old addresses once not_bob_afk's updated his lists.
dr|z3d
freeAssange: talk to me here, maybe other people can get some insights :)
freeAssange
Voice
freeAssange
oh it worked
dr|z3d
and yes, your private addressbook will override other address books.
freeAssange
I think I know what happened! I imported addresses to my Private Addressbook at one stage!!!!!
freeAssange
I think part of this is not knowing what the Address books are doing behind my back.
dr|z3d
you don't want to import addresses there, that book is just for aliases and the occasional site you want to keep private.
freeAssange
At one stage I was scared to add subscriptions because I thought it might add fingerprinting risks
dr|z3d
the whole multiple address book model is overcomplex, anyways, so don't be too hard on yourself.
freeAssange
I think the different books are just not explained well enough
freeAssange
Actually that is a pet problem of mine. When a site doesn't load the link to the Addressbook is broken at my end
freeAssange
it would probably be great if entries in the address books for that address were listed in some form on that error page.
freeAssange
Address books AND subscriptions
freeAssange
Blinded message
freeAssange
That would be a HUGE UX boost. Little cost.
RN
does i2pd not have the jump helpers on their fail page?
freeAssange
I'm i2prouter (java) btw
RN
oh. so don't use the stats one, but the other helpers there should prevent you from needing to add anything that has a published address manually
freeAssange
I was concerned about fingerprinting, so a manually added entries to the "Private" address book. I don't know for sure if any fingerprinting issues exist but I did that to be safe.
dr|z3d
once not_bob_afk's updated his postman addresses, his hosts.txt file is pretty much all you need.
dr|z3d
I'd opt for hosts.txt rather than hosts_all.txt personally. absolutely no added value with the hosts_all file.
RN
the private address book only matters if you plan to make your own address book available to others to subscribe to
KernelHawk
i2pd does have a 2ld lookup fail page, and it offers jumps from reg.i2p, stats.i2p, indentiguy.i2p, and notbob.i2p
dr|z3d
there's no risk of fingerprinting, either.
RN
thanks KernelHawk. I don't think the stats.i2p jump has been brought back online if it will be. but those are the ones I have configured on my routers (added the non default ones)
dr|z3d
make sure you have your http proxy tunnel configured to set new keys on open, and close the tunnel after inactivity.
RN
really they mostly overlap, so dr is right about one probably being all you need
RN
as far as subscriptions I mean.
dr|z3d
that'll prevent ongoing correlation of requests, not that they're of any interest to the host operators.
KernelHawk
What happens when different address books have different base64 for a 2ld?
freeAssange
It should be about a week between subscription fetches. And different subscriptions fetched at different times anyway.
freeAssange
If I add 'hosts' and 'hosts-all' from the same server a random one should be picked for a session.
freeAssange
Blinded message
zzz
it's not complicated. postman, or the people advising him, turned off backward compatibility; the result was as expected
dr|z3d
don't add both, you only need 1 or the other.
dr|z3d
adding both just taxes the server more. no value.
dr|z3d
the hosts-all list includes, for want of a better word, shit you'd be best advised to avoid.
dr|z3d
re the interval for subscription pulls, that's determined in i2p/i2p+ by whatever you've got configured, definitely not a week, somewhere around 12h.
dr|z3d
(default)
freeAssange
Yes, I don't understand the different encryption methods themselves but I get the idea. I'm going deeper now. If get subscriptions from always one file then its a fingerprint, though. I think there should be an ability to make random what your system fetches by giving it multiple host files on the same server.
freeAssange
Yes zzz.
freeAssange
rather
zzz
and if you trust notbob more than i2p-projekt for hosts.txt, by importing notbob into private addr. book, then you live with the results
zzz
or, if you clicked a notbob jump link, then went thru the conflicts page and chose notbob, you get to the same place
freeAssange
Default of 12 hours is too frequent, also hope its not regular.
RN
it really is not a fingerprint. especially if you set your tunnel as dr suggested above.
freeAssange
Is randomness added?
freeAssange
RN: Defaults matter tho
RN
doing it different than the rest of the routers on the net might be a minor fingerprint, but I agree it is probably a red herring.
dr|z3d
set your own refresh schedule in susidns configs.
freeAssange
So if, when a person has a problem accessing a site, if at error page listed the different occurrences of the that human-readable domain in each address book and subscription, that would be the best way forward, right?
RN
actually the whole point of the address book mechanism is trust
RN
the user needs to be aware of what they add and why in their own threat model
freeAssange
Did I write word salad, or did what I wrote, with minor errors make sense.
freeAssange
The error page might at first attempt only say "Try again" but at the second failed attempt perhaps, get and list all the occurances of tracker2.postman.i2p in all the books and subscriptions.
freeAssange
If it listed them in the order that the books are traversed that would add a nice educational element for the user.
dr|z3d
the proxy error tells you if the site you're attempting to connect to isn't in your addressbook.
dr|z3d
if the address is in your addressbook, it will attempt to connect to it.
dr|z3d
in i2p, you'll get a single fail; in i2p+, if the site's unreachable, it will keep retrying so long as the page is open in your browser.
RN
the correct choice 99% of the time is to use 'retry'
RN
I always tell people rule #1 retry at least three times before you decide the site is down
RN
and the page with jump links lets you know it is not currently in your router, two different 'error' pages
RN
s/router/router's address book(s)/
freeAssange
RN: Yes, that's why I say the first fail just has "retry" but then subsequent errors might offer a complete AddressBook and subscription breakdown
RN
if I don't know the url to b64 pairing in my addressbook I get the page that offers jumps, retrying is not going to help if you don't have the address
freeAssange
I'm saying that you MIGHT have the address, it's just lower in the pecking order for whatever reason.
freeAssange
It would be MUCH better to break it down for the user, rather than just say, "well the first one we found is bad so your fault"
RN
so you would be adding a useless delay step
RN
and really, if you have subscriptions and it has done a first sync of them, you should really only need jumps for new sites
RN
unless I missunderstand. there is no might. you either have the thing locally or you don't. I'm not aware of any pecking order.
freeAssange
No delay, no
dr|z3d
whatever you're suggesting, and I'm not sure I understand what it is, doesn't sound like a UX enhancement, it sounds like a recipe for more confusion.
freeAssange
On a second failed page load. Lists all occurrences of example.i2p that differ from the failed version, in the different AddrBooks and subscriptions
freeAssange
No its would simply highlight possible conflicts.
RN
it only looks in your address book. subscriptions are added to yours.
dr|z3d
ordinarily there are no conflicts in your addressbook. mostly your subscriptions load up in the router addressbook, and not much else exists. if you break it, that's on you :)
dr|z3d
and let's face it, you broke it.
dr|z3d
importing a host list to your private book is something you don't want to do.
RN
if you are already using subcribing to notbob's list, and using his site, just click the addresshelper link he provides... no confusion and no conflicts
RN
but really you only need those when looking up sites newer than your subscriptions 12 hours ago
RN
unless you tinker manually and break it, of course
freeAssange
I didn't know the sideeffects of subscribing to something, and of having possibly dynamic content in my "Router" so I thought put it in Private manually. Maybe there could be a Quarantine addressbook :P Seriously though, I think it might be good to maintain a record of different subscriptions in case of the event that one subscription gets corrupted and overwrites a working address. I'm just thinking of
freeAssange
threats I suppose.
dr|z3d
the record you're referring to already exists. it's called your host lists configuration.
dr|z3d
the main issue I have with the addressbook is the number of books, that could definitely be improved and streamlined. otherwise, it works as intended.
RN
I2P will work fine with just the default configured subscription. adding others is up to you. and normally does not cause a functional problem without user misconfiguration.
RN
and the address book, the part you are interfacing with as a user, isn't really dynamic, you just get periodic additions to the list
freeAssange
I just checked, my 'Website Unreachable' has no 'host lists configuration'
RN
and as far as threats, if someone can get into the files on your computer (threat to the local address book) then you have much bigger problems
freeAssange
*page* has no...
RN
so that site is unreachable
RN
does not mean it is missing from your address book
RN
what page did you try, if you don't mind me asking
RN
note: sites are periodically unreachable. They are not run on big servers on the internet. they are (mostly) run from someone's home computer or collection of vps
RN
and many sites have gone awol
RN
the configuration for your address book is found in the I2P web console
RN
click address book
freeAssange
Just gonna try something... on e sec
RN
on the left side
freeAssange
Ok... so my 'Router' address book DOES have the correct address for tracker2 the private has the wrong address. So in my case even with a bad/outdated subscription I am lucky(?) to have the correct b32. ...
freeAssange
Having said that I don't get that "host lists configuration" thing youve mentioned.
RN
why have you concluded you have a bad/outdated subscription. that is fine. just delete the entry from the private book and you should be fine.
RN
stopWarCriminals, set your client's ping-timeout value to 320 and that should drastically reduce the disconnects
dr|z3d
host lists subscription thing can be found here: 127.0.0.1:7657/susidns/subscriptions
stopWarCriminals
> "just delete the entry from the private book" Yes, thats what I'll do, but for the purpose of identifying a way to solve the problem, for future people. If someone else has a similar issue I wanted to see if a "breakdown message" of some sort would show if applicable. I just confirmed applicable, but did not see any sort of UX "breakdown".
stopWarCriminals
Agree with the number of Book being an issue, but maybe worse than that is there is some documentation that makes a book SEEM redundant.
stopWarCriminals
Probably the most importatn thing might be to have grayed text for address books that are supposed to be auto-generated?
stopWarCriminals
ie. "Router". Maybe "Published" too? Dunno though. That might make them seem not clickable.
stopWarCriminals
Anyway I have seen my error now.Hopefully notbob will publish an address that works.
stopWarCriminals
Blinded message
stopWarCriminals
Bye 4 now
stopWarCriminals
dr|z3d: btw, yes I know that page, its just that you mentioned 'host lists configuration'. :) Bye
stopWarCriminals
host lists configuration ...in reference to the error 'Unavailable' page... i should say
dr|z3d
if you want a more fluid experience when you're browsing for offline sites, stopWarCriminals, maybe have a look at i2p+. it's straight cross-grade path.
dr|z3d
if auto-retry is something you'd like, that is.
not_bob
I have read the scrollback, I had an issue with another site as well a few weeks ago.
not_bob
Similar issue.
not_bob
As for logging. I do log all jump requests. But, that's just to see aht searches are popular. Nothing is attached to it beyond "x times this month" sort of thing per site.
stopWarCriminals
So a conflict between your AddrBooks?
not_bob
I appear to have an old defunct address for some hosts.
not_bob
Fixing that now.
not_bob
I did not know that was an issue.
not_bob
And, as pointed out. I'm a default jump service for I2P, I2P+ and i2pd.
not_bob
Hmm, that didn't fix it. I'll have to dig deeper.
dr|z3d
yeah, nuke all the old .postman stuff, not_bob
not_bob
Working on it now.
dr|z3d
I think skank has all the new dests.
not_bob
If I get it done in the next 15 min, then it will all propogate to every instance.
dr|z3d
if you need them.
stopWarCriminals
A confluence of factors came together, so not as bad as it sounds, not_bob
not_bob
Yep, it's how it goes. We can fix this.
stopWarCriminals
Dont rush
not_bob
Today has been less than pleasent.
stopWarCriminals
Thanks for the suggest btw dr|z3d, I think that would've helpd a tiny bit to recognize I HAD a problem. In my case a small thing to indicate a conflict in my address book would've been all I would've needed.
KernelHawk
Appreciate your works, not_bob
not_bob
Thank you.
stopWarCriminals
Sorry to here not_bob
not_bob
Ok, tracker2 is fixed.
not_bob
Working on the rest.
stopWarCriminals
I don't think that I2P would track how many times you attempt and fail to access a site, amirite? If so I think on the second attempt it should tell you if there is a conflict in the address book. Maybe its a silly thing to want though.
not_bob
Correct.
not_bob
i2p supports alternate addresses.
not_bob
So, you might have more than one for a site.
stopWarCriminals
Oh yeah I forgot about that.
stopWarCriminals
If you have multiple does it toss a coin to pick one for a session?
not_bob
I can't answer that question. I've never tried that feature.
stopWarCriminals
Same.
not_bob
Ok, should all be fixed now.
not_bob
And all hosts.txt files across all notbob instances should change in the next hour.
stopWarCriminals
Speaking of things never tried, a few years ago I heard of software called Epicyon, which is supposed to be a federated social platform. It is apparently designed for I2P but I've never seen a site based on it. ...
not_bob
I run my site multi-homed, so there is not just one notbob.i2p, but a series of them.
not_bob
All exaclty the same, kept in sync.
dr|z3d
the alternate address is effectively a redirect to a new address, to support the mostly deprecated DSA keys.
not_bob
Ahh, I did not know that.
not_bob
How many other sites will this be a problem for?
not_bob
блин :(
not_bob
Likely others.
stopWarCriminals
Not sure if this is the place for it but if anyone is interested, see libreserver.org/epicyon/ (? assumed) or wrciraogf5vw2p3a46oevueqncqsqanh3qdftcurlsdb22nrsu66uoad.onion/epicyon (the page in my bookmarks)
not_bob
What site is that? It does not appear to be registered.
not_bob
Fediverse is cool, but not for me.
not_bob
I'm content with what I do. stopWarCriminals, have you seen my blog?
stopWarCriminals
It worked the other day for me. If you know of a public server feel free to share it. Yes its Fediverse
stopWarCriminals
I think i read it a while back now.
not_bob
Oh, that's an onion.
not_bob
*facepalm*
not_bob
I've had a very rough day.
not_bob
Best to not go into details. But, it boils down to stupid people doing stupid things because they are broke.
not_bob
My brain is a bit fried.
not_bob
Driving many, many hours didn't help either.
stopWarCriminals
it being your blog :)
not_bob
Oh, that you read my blog. Thank you for that.
not_bob
I try to post often and with soemthing of at least some value every time.
not_bob
Even if it's to showase how boring the network tends to be.
dr|z3d
network's doing fine, not_bob, don't be too hard on it :)
not_bob
vilari.i2p being a good example.
not_bob
I'm not complaining, just observing.
dr|z3d
sure, some people park up crap and abandon it, no different that the normal net :)
not_bob
Agreed.
not_bob
!soon!
not_bob
Or something like that, for months.
stopWarCriminals
lol yeah the parking is lame but also boring can mean good too. Financial difficulties suck, sucks to see it, especially when its obvious that everyone should get a UBI based on national income.
stopWarCriminals
Its even bad when you have money but the bank wont let you login anymore because you are a proof-of-keys bitcoiner that will not just leave your money on cloudflare to be stolen
not_bob
*nod*
not_bob
Being poor is very expensive.
stopWarCriminals
taxing also
not_bob
Yep, the less you make the more you get taxed.
not_bob
Sorta.
not_bob
rather, the less you can avoid being taxed.
stopWarCriminals
More true than most appreciate.
not_bob
To some point it's fair. And, what I mean by that, people who make poor money choices tend to be higher risk.
not_bob
But, that's a very long discussion in which there are really no right answers.
stopWarCriminals
Poor money choices =/= poor
stopWarCriminals
though
not_bob
Agreed.
not_bob
Alas, off to do real world things for a while.
not_bob
Later!
stopWarCriminals
L8r
orignal
<not_bob> блин :(
orignal
wrong
orignal
bettet to say "бля"
zzz
not_bob_afk, the router addressbook does this for you, but if you have some separate implementation/database, you should be automatically preferring the "adddest" feed entries with newer sigtypes
zzz
you shouldn't have to do manual fixups
dr|z3d
orignal: do you have an api we can use?
not_bob
orignal: Thank you, бля is is then.
not_bob
zzz: And, I do. Since the addressbook is a binary blob that's a pain to deal with.
zzz
sure, you wouldn't want to write your own skiplist file parser
zzz
I want to write a SQL DB addressbook storage for Android, since you get SQL there for free, but it's way over my head right now
dr|z3d
I vaguely recall us having a conversation about an SQL backend of some description.
dr|z3d
Many moons ago.
zzz
that's what I'd put jrandom on if he reappeared
zzz
do we have any SQL people?
dr|z3d
postman's pretty adept with SQL
orignal
api for waht?
orignal
how about my implemntation of addressbook?
dr|z3d
an api for your live translation and correction :)
dr|z3d
can the orignal api do realtime po translation?
dr|z3d
what about your addressbook? what are you using there?
orignal
csv file address->b32
orignal
and bunch or files with b32 name and full I2P address inside
orignal
yes, we have comething for translation
dr|z3d
I was joking, orignal, suggesting you're the api :)
not_bob
There we go. My internet is super slow here.