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stopMakingRefugees Hi all

dr|z3d hi, stopMakingRefugees, welcome to #saltR

stopMakingRefugees Have found what was stopping me from accessing tracker2.postman.i2p

stopMakingRefugees It was issue with the notbob host file notbob.i2p/hosts-all.txt

dr|z3d maybe notbob's list still has the old dsa address.

dr|z3d that's to say, postman was until recently operating a dual-address service, so if you accessed the old (DSA) address you'd get forwarded to the new address. no longer. the old address has been retired.

zzz dunno why postman did that, but notbob is indeed publishing the ElG address, and those two combined leads to this result

dr|z3d ordinarily you shouldn't encounter the issue, at least not with i2p or i2p+, because they come with the new address in the default hosts list.

zzz s/ElG/DSA/

dr|z3d postman did that because of the ongoing issues he was having with dual dests, possibly in relation to subdbs, but I think he just had enough of the hassle.

dr|z3d not_bob_afk: make sure you've got the new addresses for postman in your hosts lists.

zzz sure, but for the rest, both postman and notbob have made mistakes that together lead to this

dr|z3d irc.postman, hq.postman, tracker2.postman, smtp.postman, pop3.postman.

zzz not just postman

dr|z3d in java-land, auto-purge of the old address when redirected to the new address would be handy, though it's probably a bit of work.

dr|z3d obviously for freeAssange it's not going to help, because it sounds like he's on i2pd.

dr|z3d maybe we can put something out there to inform people to purge all old addresses once not_bob_afk's updated his lists.

dr|z3d freeAssange: talk to me here, maybe other people can get some insights :)

freeAssange Voice

freeAssange oh it worked

dr|z3d and yes, your private addressbook will override other address books.

freeAssange I think I know what happened! I imported addresses to my Private Addressbook at one stage!!!!!

freeAssange I think part of this is not knowing what the Address books are doing behind my back.

dr|z3d you don't want to import addresses there, that book is just for aliases and the occasional site you want to keep private.

freeAssange At one stage I was scared to add subscriptions because I thought it might add fingerprinting risks

dr|z3d the whole multiple address book model is overcomplex, anyways, so don't be too hard on yourself.

freeAssange I think the different books are just not explained well enough

freeAssange Actually that is a pet problem of mine. When a site doesn't load the link to the Addressbook is broken at my end

freeAssange it would probably be great if entries in the address books for that address were listed in some form on that error page.

freeAssange Address books AND subscriptions

freeAssange Blinded message

freeAssange That would be a HUGE UX boost. Little cost.

RN does i2pd not have the jump helpers on their fail page?

freeAssange I'm i2prouter (java) btw

RN oh. so don't use the stats one, but the other helpers there should prevent you from needing to add anything that has a published address manually

freeAssange I was concerned about fingerprinting, so a manually added entries to the "Private" address book. I don't know for sure if any fingerprinting issues exist but I did that to be safe.

dr|z3d once not_bob_afk's updated his postman addresses, his hosts.txt file is pretty much all you need.

dr|z3d I'd opt for hosts.txt rather than hosts_all.txt personally. absolutely no added value with the hosts_all file.

RN the private address book only matters if you plan to make your own address book available to others to subscribe to

KernelHawk i2pd does have a 2ld lookup fail page, and it offers jumps from reg.i2p, stats.i2p, indentiguy.i2p, and notbob.i2p

dr|z3d there's no risk of fingerprinting, either.

RN thanks KernelHawk. I don't think the stats.i2p jump has been brought back online if it will be. but those are the ones I have configured on my routers (added the non default ones)

dr|z3d make sure you have your http proxy tunnel configured to set new keys on open, and close the tunnel after inactivity.

RN really they mostly overlap, so dr is right about one probably being all you need

RN as far as subscriptions I mean.

dr|z3d that'll prevent ongoing correlation of requests, not that they're of any interest to the host operators.

KernelHawk What happens when different address books have different base64 for a 2ld?

freeAssange It should be about a week between subscription fetches. And different subscriptions fetched at different times anyway.

freeAssange If I add 'hosts' and 'hosts-all' from the same server a random one should be picked for a session.

freeAssange Blinded message

zzz it's not complicated. postman, or the people advising him, turned off backward compatibility; the result was as expected

dr|z3d don't add both, you only need 1 or the other.

dr|z3d adding both just taxes the server more. no value.

dr|z3d the hosts-all list includes, for want of a better word, shit you'd be best advised to avoid.

dr|z3d re the interval for subscription pulls, that's determined in i2p/i2p+ by whatever you've got configured, definitely not a week, somewhere around 12h.

dr|z3d (default)

freeAssange Yes, I don't understand the different encryption methods themselves but I get the idea. I'm going deeper now. If get subscriptions from always one file then its a fingerprint, though. I think there should be an ability to make random what your system fetches by giving it multiple host files on the same server.

freeAssange Yes zzz.

freeAssange rather

zzz and if you trust notbob more than i2p-projekt for hosts.txt, by importing notbob into private addr. book, then you live with the results

zzz or, if you clicked a notbob jump link, then went thru the conflicts page and chose notbob, you get to the same place

freeAssange Default of 12 hours is too frequent, also hope its not regular.

RN it really is not a fingerprint. especially if you set your tunnel as dr suggested above.

freeAssange Is randomness added?

freeAssange RN: Defaults matter tho

RN doing it different than the rest of the routers on the net might be a minor fingerprint, but I agree it is probably a red herring.

dr|z3d set your own refresh schedule in susidns configs.

freeAssange So if, when a person has a problem accessing a site, if at error page listed the different occurrences of the that human-readable domain in each address book and subscription, that would be the best way forward, right?

RN actually the whole point of the address book mechanism is trust

RN the user needs to be aware of what they add and why in their own threat model

freeAssange Did I write word salad, or did what I wrote, with minor errors make sense.

freeAssange ?

freeAssange The error page might at first attempt only say "Try again" but at the second failed attempt perhaps, get and list all the occurances of tracker2.postman.i2p in all the books and subscriptions.

freeAssange If it listed them in the order that the books are traversed that would add a nice educational element for the user.

dr|z3d the proxy error tells you if the site you're attempting to connect to isn't in your addressbook.

dr|z3d if the address is in your addressbook, it will attempt to connect to it.

dr|z3d in i2p, you'll get a single fail; in i2p+, if the site's unreachable, it will keep retrying so long as the page is open in your browser.

RN the correct choice 99% of the time is to use 'retry'

RN I always tell people rule #1 retry at least three times before you decide the site is down

RN and the page with jump links lets you know it is not currently in your router, two different 'error' pages

RN s/router/router's address book(s)/

freeAssange RN: Yes, that's why I say the first fail just has "retry" but then subsequent errors might offer a complete AddressBook and subscription breakdown

RN if I don't know the url to b64 pairing in my addressbook I get the page that offers jumps, retrying is not going to help if you don't have the address

freeAssange I'm saying that you MIGHT have the address, it's just lower in the pecking order for whatever reason.

freeAssange It would be MUCH better to break it down for the user, rather than just say, "well the first one we found is bad so your fault"

RN so you would be adding a useless delay step

RN and really, if you have subscriptions and it has done a first sync of them, you should really only need jumps for new sites

RN unless I missunderstand. there is no might. you either have the thing locally or you don't. I'm not aware of any pecking order.

freeAssange No delay, no

dr|z3d whatever you're suggesting, and I'm not sure I understand what it is, doesn't sound like a UX enhancement, it sounds like a recipe for more confusion.

freeAssange On a second failed page load. Lists all occurrences of example.i2p that differ from the failed version, in the different AddrBooks and subscriptions

freeAssange No its would simply highlight possible conflicts.

RN it only looks in your address book. subscriptions are added to yours.

dr|z3d ordinarily there are no conflicts in your addressbook. mostly your subscriptions load up in the router addressbook, and not much else exists. if you break it, that's on you :)

dr|z3d and let's face it, you broke it.

dr|z3d importing a host list to your private book is something you don't want to do.

RN if you are already using subcribing to notbob's list, and using his site, just click the addresshelper link he provides... no confusion and no conflicts

RN but really you only need those when looking up sites newer than your subscriptions 12 hours ago

RN unless you tinker manually and break it, of course

freeAssange I didn't know the sideeffects of subscribing to something, and of having possibly dynamic content in my "Router" so I thought put it in Private manually. Maybe there could be a Quarantine addressbook :P Seriously though, I think it might be good to maintain a record of different subscriptions in case of the event that one subscription gets corrupted and overwrites a working address. I'm just thinking of

freeAssange threats I suppose.

dr|z3d the record you're referring to already exists. it's called your host lists configuration.

dr|z3d the main issue I have with the addressbook is the number of books, that could definitely be improved and streamlined. otherwise, it works as intended.

RN I2P will work fine with just the default configured subscription. adding others is up to you. and normally does not cause a functional problem without user misconfiguration.

RN and the address book, the part you are interfacing with as a user, isn't really dynamic, you just get periodic additions to the list

freeAssange I just checked, my 'Website Unreachable' has no 'host lists configuration'

RN and as far as threats, if someone can get into the files on your computer (threat to the local address book) then you have much bigger problems

freeAssange *page* has no...

RN so that site is unreachable

RN does not mean it is missing from your address book

RN what page did you try, if you don't mind me asking

RN note: sites are periodically unreachable. They are not run on big servers on the internet. they are (mostly) run from someone's home computer or collection of vps

RN and many sites have gone awol

RN the configuration for your address book is found in the I2P web console

RN click address book

freeAssange Just gonna try something... on e sec

RN on the left side

freeAssange Ok... so my 'Router' address book DOES have the correct address for tracker2 the private has the wrong address. So in my case even with a bad/outdated subscription I am lucky(?) to have the correct b32. ...

freeAssange Having said that I don't get that "host lists configuration" thing youve mentioned.

RN why have you concluded you have a bad/outdated subscription. that is fine. just delete the entry from the private book and you should be fine.

RN stopWarCriminals, set your client's ping-timeout value to 320 and that should drastically reduce the disconnects

dr|z3d host lists subscription thing can be found here: 127.0.0.1:7657/susidns/subscriptions

stopWarCriminals > "just delete the entry from the private book" Yes, thats what I'll do, but for the purpose of identifying a way to solve the problem, for future people. If someone else has a similar issue I wanted to see if a "breakdown message" of some sort would show if applicable. I just confirmed applicable, but did not see any sort of UX "breakdown".

stopWarCriminals Agree with the number of Book being an issue, but maybe worse than that is there is some documentation that makes a book SEEM redundant.

stopWarCriminals Probably the most importatn thing might be to have grayed text for address books that are supposed to be auto-generated?

stopWarCriminals ie. "Router". Maybe "Published" too? Dunno though. That might make them seem not clickable.

stopWarCriminals Anyway I have seen my error now.Hopefully notbob will publish an address that works.

stopWarCriminals Blinded message

stopWarCriminals Bye 4 now

stopWarCriminals dr|z3d: btw, yes I know that page, its just that you mentioned 'host lists configuration'. :) Bye

stopWarCriminals host lists configuration ...in reference to the error 'Unavailable' page... i should say

dr|z3d if you want a more fluid experience when you're browsing for offline sites, stopWarCriminals, maybe have a look at i2p+. it's straight cross-grade path.

dr|z3d if auto-retry is something you'd like, that is.

not_bob I have read the scrollback, I had an issue with another site as well a few weeks ago.

not_bob Similar issue.

not_bob As for logging. I do log all jump requests. But, that's just to see aht searches are popular. Nothing is attached to it beyond "x times this month" sort of thing per site.

stopWarCriminals So a conflict between your AddrBooks?

not_bob I appear to have an old defunct address for some hosts.

not_bob Fixing that now.

not_bob I did not know that was an issue.

not_bob And, as pointed out. I'm a default jump service for I2P, I2P+ and i2pd.

not_bob Hmm, that didn't fix it. I'll have to dig deeper.

dr|z3d yeah, nuke all the old .postman stuff, not_bob

not_bob Working on it now.

dr|z3d I think skank has all the new dests.

not_bob If I get it done in the next 15 min, then it will all propogate to every instance.

dr|z3d if you need them.

stopWarCriminals A confluence of factors came together, so not as bad as it sounds, not_bob

not_bob Yep, it's how it goes. We can fix this.

stopWarCriminals Dont rush

not_bob Today has been less than pleasent.

stopWarCriminals Thanks for the suggest btw dr|z3d, I think that would've helpd a tiny bit to recognize I HAD a problem. In my case a small thing to indicate a conflict in my address book would've been all I would've needed.

KernelHawk Appreciate your works, not_bob

not_bob Thank you.

stopWarCriminals Sorry to here not_bob

not_bob Ok, tracker2 is fixed.

not_bob Working on the rest.

stopWarCriminals :)

stopWarCriminals I don't think that I2P would track how many times you attempt and fail to access a site, amirite? If so I think on the second attempt it should tell you if there is a conflict in the address book. Maybe its a silly thing to want though.

not_bob Correct.

not_bob i2p supports alternate addresses.

not_bob So, you might have more than one for a site.

stopWarCriminals Oh yeah I forgot about that.

stopWarCriminals If you have multiple does it toss a coin to pick one for a session?

not_bob I can't answer that question. I've never tried that feature.

stopWarCriminals Same.

not_bob Ok, should all be fixed now.

not_bob And all hosts.txt files across all notbob instances should change in the next hour.

stopWarCriminals Speaking of things never tried, a few years ago I heard of software called Epicyon, which is supposed to be a federated social platform. It is apparently designed for I2P but I've never seen a site based on it. ...

not_bob I run my site multi-homed, so there is not just one notbob.i2p, but a series of them.

not_bob All exaclty the same, kept in sync.

dr|z3d the alternate address is effectively a redirect to a new address, to support the mostly deprecated DSA keys.

not_bob Ahh, I did not know that.

not_bob How many other sites will this be a problem for?

not_bob блин :(

not_bob Likely others.

stopWarCriminals Not sure if this is the place for it but if anyone is interested, see libreserver.org/epicyon/ (? assumed) or wrciraogf5vw2p3a46oevueqncqsqanh3qdftcurlsdb22nrsu66uoad.onion/epicyon (the page in my bookmarks)

not_bob What site is that? It does not appear to be registered.

not_bob Fediverse is cool, but not for me.

not_bob I'm content with what I do. stopWarCriminals, have you seen my blog?

stopWarCriminals It worked the other day for me. If you know of a public server feel free to share it. Yes its Fediverse

stopWarCriminals I think i read it a while back now.

not_bob Oh, that's an onion.

not_bob *facepalm*

not_bob I've had a very rough day.

not_bob Best to not go into details. But, it boils down to stupid people doing stupid things because they are broke.

not_bob My brain is a bit fried.

not_bob Driving many, many hours didn't help either.

stopWarCriminals it being your blog :)

not_bob Oh, that you read my blog. Thank you for that.

not_bob I try to post often and with soemthing of at least some value every time.

not_bob Even if it's to showase how boring the network tends to be.

dr|z3d network's doing fine, not_bob, don't be too hard on it :)

not_bob vilari.i2p being a good example.

not_bob I'm not complaining, just observing.

dr|z3d sure, some people park up crap and abandon it, no different that the normal net :)

not_bob Agreed.

not_bob !soon!

not_bob Or something like that, for months.

stopWarCriminals lol yeah the parking is lame but also boring can mean good too. Financial difficulties suck, sucks to see it, especially when its obvious that everyone should get a UBI based on national income.

stopWarCriminals Its even bad when you have money but the bank wont let you login anymore because you are a proof-of-keys bitcoiner that will not just leave your money on cloudflare to be stolen

not_bob *nod*

not_bob Being poor is very expensive.

stopWarCriminals taxing also

not_bob Yep, the less you make the more you get taxed.

not_bob Sorta.

not_bob rather, the less you can avoid being taxed.

stopWarCriminals More true than most appreciate.

not_bob To some point it's fair. And, what I mean by that, people who make poor money choices tend to be higher risk.

not_bob But, that's a very long discussion in which there are really no right answers.

stopWarCriminals Poor money choices =/= poor

stopWarCriminals though

not_bob Agreed.

not_bob Alas, off to do real world things for a while.

not_bob Later!

stopWarCriminals L8r

orignal <not_bob> блин :(

orignal wrong

orignal bettet to say "бля"

zzz not_bob_afk, the router addressbook does this for you, but if you have some separate implementation/database, you should be automatically preferring the "adddest" feed entries with newer sigtypes

zzz you shouldn't have to do manual fixups

dr|z3d orignal: do you have an api we can use?

not_bob orignal: Thank you, бля is is then.

not_bob zzz: And, I do. Since the addressbook is a binary blob that's a pain to deal with.

zzz sure, you wouldn't want to write your own skiplist file parser

zzz I want to write a SQL DB addressbook storage for Android, since you get SQL there for free, but it's way over my head right now

dr|z3d I vaguely recall us having a conversation about an SQL backend of some description.

dr|z3d Many moons ago.

zzz that's what I'd put jrandom on if he reappeared

zzz do we have any SQL people?

dr|z3d postman's pretty adept with SQL

orignal api for waht?

orignal how about my implemntation of addressbook?

dr|z3d an api for your live translation and correction :)

dr|z3d can the orignal api do realtime po translation?

dr|z3d what about your addressbook? what are you using there?

orignal csv file address->b32

orignal and bunch or files with b32 name and full I2P address inside

orignal yes, we have comething for translation

orignal crowdin.com/project/i2pd

dr|z3d I was joking, orignal, suggesting you're the api :)

not_bob There we go. My internet is super slow here.