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dr|z3d Yeah, it's obviously an assassination. No other explanation.

dr|z3d Apparently they lost radio contact before the plane fell out the sky. Probably a bomb or similar.

dr|z3d Are you still banging on about LGBT orignal? Doing java development means doing java development.

dr|z3d No one's signed up to any code of conduct regarding minority groups. We just do code :)

dr|z3d That said, feel free to put a rainbow flag in your console if it makes you feel better, orignal.

orignal dr|z3d no "We do support LBGT"

orignal everybody involved into Java I2P project supports LGBT

orignal and btw names of people sup[porting LGBT are listed on the page

orignal geti2p.net/en/contact

dr|z3d orignal: you're saying i2pd supports LGBT?

dr|z3d Congratulations :)

orignal no, Java I2P only

orignal do you see my name in that list?

orignal of the LGBT supporters

orignal no you don't

dr|z3d There's nothing new on that page that wasn't there 6 months ago is there?

dr|z3d I don't see anything that suggests individuals on that page support LGBT, I just see a poorly worded statement at the bottom of the page. I don't think that's new, it's been like that for as long as you've been banging on about it.

Hikari tbh as fas as pro-LGBT stances go, it's about as controversial as the one Raytheon (tagline: Uber for incindeary devices) issues every year

Irc2PGuest67015 It should be removed.

dr|z3d This is an old discussion that orignal's decided he wants to heat up again.

dr|z3d As I've said before, the project doesn't need a statement of inclusivity to be inclusive, and it should be apolitical. I don't run the website, notwithstanding.

Opicaak By having this "inclusion" statement on the website, you are spliting people into two groups, those that do support it, and those that don't. If it's not there, nobody cares, thus only one group of people as a result.

Opicaak Indeed, it should just stay clear form these statements, it's unnecessary and can only cause issues.

Hikari only if you make it an issue

Hikari averting your gaze costs $0

Opicaak What kind of a statement is that? It's very obvious that not all people globally support lgtb.

Opicaak While if no statement is on the website, noone even notices it or thinks about lbtg

Hikari that doesn't mean you have to piss in everyone else's cheerios

Opicaak lgbt people are pissing in everyone else's cheerios.

Hikari dude why are you focusing on this so much

dr|z3d I don't have an issue personally with the sentiment, but I do think it's counterproductive to actively promote minority groups on a site that really should stay out of politics and stick to software.

Hikari is this just more closet gayness masquerading as homophobia

Opicaak It should stay neutral towards everyone. That's my point.

Opicaak Yes, Doc gets it.

Opicaak "homophobia" lol, again that word. How about you look up what "phobia" actually means?

dr|z3d Otherwise, why draw the line at LGBT? We might as well say we support the Taiwanese, the Uyhgurs, ethnic minorities, the struggle in Myanmar and all the rest of the oppressed people in the world.

dr|z3d If you want to strip it down, I suspect that the statement was published on the site to antagonize more than anything else.

dr|z3d (given the long standing animosity between orignal and echelon)

Opicaak Indeed, but this could backfire. If a non-lrtb supporter sees this statement, he may turn away form even installing i2p.

Opicaak One less transit node in the network ^

Hikari and if pro-lgbt people see the message removed, it'd backfire more

Opicaak No.

Opicaak It would be neutral towards everyone.

dr|z3d I doubt that. Most people, as Hikari is suggesting, just don't care. And most people won't bother to review the entire website, they'll just head straight for the downloads page.

Opicaak Just saying, better stay neutral than force this agenda onto everyone.

dr|z3d As for removal, I also doubt that LGBT people will care much if it is removed.

dr|z3d Just because I don't explicitly state that I support LGBT doesn't mean I don't.

dr|z3d I haven't gone out of my way to see if Tor's main site has a similar statement.. let's see if it does.

Opicaak I don't believe it does.

dr|z3d It has a general mission statement which appears to serve as their inclusivity statement:

dr|z3d "We believe everyone should be able to explore the internet with privacy. We are the Tor Project, a 501(c)(3) US nonprofit. We advance human rights and defend your privacy online through free software and open networks."

dr|z3d And: "To advance human rights and freedoms by creating and deploying free and open source anonymity and privacy technologies, supporting their unrestricted availability and use, and furthering their scientific and popular understanding."

Opicaak Yeah, that's rather different than what's on i2p's website. What Tor has is more general and neutral.

dr|z3d Sure, and maybe it serves as a useful template. It neither alienates nor promotes any particular group or special interest.

Opicaak Precisely.

dr|z3d As an aside, it's always annoyed me that echelon never bothers to get someone else to check his published statements before he puts them online. Regardless of the content, the grammar of that statement is dire.

dr|z3d I propose we have a new language offered on the website, spaghetti English.

Opicaak Agreed, I imagine establishing a small quorum that decides what goes on that website and what doesn't would be very beneficial for i2p.

T3s|4 hmmh...I have no problem with the insignificantly small LGBT segment of the population ASSUMING they remain in non-proselytizing mode, including they offer NO child-facing drag queen shows. I do have a major problem when the very tiny 'tyranny of the minority' attempts/demands to supplant the opinion and common sense of the overwhelming majority of the population. Case in point: Ask

T3s|4 Bud-Light, re: Go Woke, Go Broke.

T3s|4 Opicaak: Please don't argue in favor of censorship = ALL opinions matter, let the larger crowd of users decide: 'Agreed, I imagine establishing a small quorum that decides what goes on that website and what doesn't would be very beneficial for i2p.'

Opicaak You missed the point. But you do you.

orignal so Java developers

orignal if you support LGBT it's fine and it's only your choice

orignal if you don't support LGBT but listed on that page and keep developement your are a cuckold

orignal if you can't restore the status-quo

orignal if you don't do it because you are beging paid by Nazi, you sold your ass too cheap

orignal dr|z3d it's old discussion, but no changes and gradpa is not back

orignal I suspect that grandpa has made his decision because of this

obscuratus This discussion is so much like the 7th and 8th grade, it makes me feel young again.

T3s|4 orignal: my apologies of you took my comments the wrong way. I must have been disconnected (or missed) your Java dev comments, which are obviously completely unrelated to personal sexual/gender choices

T3s|4 Opicaak: which point did I miss?

orignal T3s|4 I'm talking to dr|z3d only

orignal the sitatation is

T3s|4 np orignal - thanks

orignal grandpa has decided to leave for unknown reason

orignal telling me for 6 months

orignal after 6 months he is not back

orignal allegely it's was the problem with Nazi and this statement

orignal that's why I brought it back now

dr|z3d Your logic is flawed, orignal.

dr|z3d echelon published the statement on the website without consultation. There was no "buy-in" from any of the developers listed on the page.

orignal as I understand the situation grandpa tried to talk to him

orignal who cares? you see the list of people and it says "we(people above) do support LGBT"

orignal in my opinion grandpa didn't want to be a cuckold and decided to let someone else develop the project

dr|z3d Well, you said it yourself. Who cares? But the point remains, when you're saying the listed developers all support the LGBT inclusion statement you're wrong.

orignal who care? External people reading this page

orignal I'm saying that if you are involved into a project with such statement you do support LGBT

orignal either developers support it and it's true

orignal or they don't but contninue debvelping and can't clear the situation with Nazi

orignal what are them?

orignal e.g. if you don't support LGBT why are you involved

dr|z3d Listen, and listen carefully. echelon posted the statement, consulted no one. Therefore to extrapolate his statement as a statement agreed by all developers listed on that page is wrong. Most of the people listed there do not have write permissions on the website repo.

dr|z3d It's unfortunate that no one was consulted before he published the statement.

dr|z3d As I've said before, his time would be better spent translating the site into his native language.

dr|z3d What's more interesting from my perspective is where several million $ worth of bitcoin went.

orignal then fork out the project

orignal and let him develop alone

orignal especially he is not able too

dr|z3d Is my name listed on that page? I'll give you a clue. No. And if you hadn't noticed, I already have a fork :)

orignal it's easy

orignal if Nazi is not going to listen to anybody

orignal I'm not talking about you

orignal but Java-I2P developers listed there

orignal my point is

orignal if Nazi is so dumb leave him alone

orignal literrally

T3s|4 hmmh - in most developed countries, a full investigation and accounting would be required when millions 'go missing': What's more interesting from my perspective is where several million $ worth of bitcoin went.

orignal you mean bitcoins "stolen" from Nazi

orignal ?

dr|z3d I have no idea where they went, though I heard rumors that they'd be stolen, never substantiated with any official statement.

dr|z3d I just remember that one day the accounts were published in the site, the next day they weren't, and the ~1000 or more bitcoins listed very soon became "the project has no money".

Irc2PGuest17631 Fuck, not sure if you can see my message, I'll resend it.

Irc2PGuest17631 Doc, your name is on the list.

Irc2PGuest17631 In the past devs list.

dr|z3d I don't think it matters either way. I think the entire argument is overblown, though as I've previously stated, I'd prefer that the project isn't politicized.

T3s|4 dr|z3d: despite BTC's ~10.65% NEGATIVE 1 month slide, 1K BTC is still worth well north of $25.5 Million USD. So are we talking about one of the greatest financial heists in history?

orignal I prefer grandpa to be back. That's all

dr|z3d Yes, orignal, we all miss zzz. :)

dr|z3d Have you sent flowers and chocolates?

Opicaak I2P was donated 1k btc? To whom?

orignal By whom you mean?

orignal by zlatinb

Opicaak Zab donated 1k btc? Damn, and to whom?

Opicaak To zzz?

dr|z3d It would have been to echelon, the project treasurer at the time.

Opicaak I see, thanks.

dr|z3d This was over 10 years ago.

Opicaak Is the transaction known?

dr|z3d The donation was for 2K bitcoin iirc.

orignal to I2P project

dr|z3d That's not the point, anyways. The point is that until a few years ago, the project had significant bitcoin holdings. And then it didn't, and it wasn't clear, still isn't, where they all went. Then zzz stated that the project had no money.

orignal "they disappeared" )))

Opicaak Is it known when they "disappeared"? What year?

T3s|4 in Dec 2021 (20 months ago), 1K of BTC could have been sold for ~$65+ Million

RN zab was my friend, he is now zlatin and is not my friend. I will not call him "zab" any longer. However I recall him saying it was 1,000 btc

dr|z3d You may well recall better than me, then. My memory is hazy.

RN and orignal, bringing this up in a place where echelon can't see is just inflammatory and makes your motives appear suspect.

orignal RN he bans evevrybody who brings it

orignal many people tried

orignal and I'm banned on all his channels here )))

RN on the contact page, each name is assigned a specific role, so those who are responsible for the statement would be the site operator and the P.R. people

orignal and they all "do support LGBT"

RN all others are only associated with their specific function and not the statement

RN yes he has been unapproachable on the subject.

Opicaak Is echelon himself part of this group?

orignal and my question is not to him

orignal my question is to Java-I2P developers

RN meanwhile, back at the ranch, low BSR% accross the board... 45%,37%,38%

RN anyone else seeing low numbers?

Opicaak i2pd TCSR 49%

T3s|4 RN, 53% on one and 57% on the other

T3s|4 but never stable and highly variable

RN thanks Opicaak and T3s|4. Yes they do vary quite a bit. But when I see three routers all low at the same time it gets my attention.

T3s|4 RN, ofc and understood