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eyedeekay
Hi everyone, welcome to the LS2 meeting for today
orignal
hi
eyedeekay
hi orignal
orignal
where is drozd?
eyedeekay
I don't know, let's give him a moment
orignal
so what we discuss today?
eyedeekay
I want to revisit R, U, and H caps
orignal
go ahead
eyedeekay
Do you have any topics to add before I begin?
orignal
not too much
orignal
I have fixed few minor issue but nothing to release soon
eyedeekay
Ack, I saw the 397 thing
eyedeekay
1. R/U/H
orignal
what is 397?
eyedeekay
Issue number on our gitlab for one of the things
eyedeekay
First things first
orignal
I also started publisheing encyrpted RouterInfo
orignal
and can explain why
orignal
probably 2.
eyedeekay
Perfect thanks
orignal
so let's start wtih R/U
eyedeekay
2 main points
eyedeekay
We do have a definition of reachable that we should all be using.
orignal
that's what was my question to grandpa
eyedeekay
Reachable as published is when we have at least one transport reachable on at least one IP address, whether it is NTCP2 or SSU2, and whether it is IPv4 or IPv6
orignal
he said that reachable means by ANY transport
eyedeekay
One transport, one IP is enough to mark a router as reachable
orignal
in i2pd however I define reachable by ipv4
orignal
or if it's ipv6 only
orignal
so if I see firewalled ipv4 and OK for ipv6 I never set R
eyedeekay
That may be close enough, but the definition I arrived at by reading and asking, it's any transport, any IP when publishing
orignal
yes but that definitly is not usable practically
orignal
makes R flag useless
eyedeekay
Why do you think that?
orignal
you see XfR for example
orignal
but ipv4 is firewalled there
orignal
would you consider it as a FF?
orignal
definitly not
orignal
although caps look good
eyedeekay
I would decline to use it as a floodfill if there were routers publishing a 4 address I knew I could reach
eyedeekay
But in principle I don't see it as tenable to disuse IPv6 only routers. Maybe it's OK for now
orignal
FF must be recahble by ipv4
orignal
what's with ipv6-only routers?
orignal
they are good but can't be FF, OBEP or IBGW
orignal
but my question is
orignal
what are you going to use R for?
orignal
based on your difenintion
eyedeekay
It's not what I am going to use R for, it's what we already use R for, turns out, checks for R are spread out all over the code including in places I don't fully understand
orignal
so do you sauggest to publish R evern for ygg-only routers?
orignal
technically they are R
eyedeekay
It looks like it's used for optimizing the way we select routers from the NetDB mostly but I can't be totally sure in all cases
eyedeekay
our usage of U is a little clearer, and H is abundantly clear, but R is much more obscure
orignal
then in which case we publish U?
dr|z3d
sorry, late to the party.
orignal
hi
orignal
we are dicussing R/U
dr|z3d
hi orginal, hi eyedeekay
eyedeekay
Yes, for now I think you should. Clients who lack yggdrasil connectivity should figure it out for themselves
orignal
great, will change
eyedeekay
U should only be published if you have no IP addresses to listen on
eyedeekay
Hi dr| z3d
orignal
now, when we publish U?
dr|z3d
yeah, U. I use U to determine whether or not a floodfill is good or marzipan dildo, orignal
eyedeekay
"U" is published with either no IPs **or** no transports
eyedeekay
H is not published at all anymore, instead the equivalent of H is to publish NTCP2 and SSU2 with no IP addresses, so it's AFAICT identical to U
dr|z3d
I'm also using U to determine whether or not to serve transit requests to older, slower routers.
dr|z3d
skimming the backlog, it seems you assumed R/U to mean reachable/unreachable to the router reading the cap, orignal?
orignal
no I don't use there caps at all
orignal
that's why I'm asking
dr|z3d
I think the importance of R/U is knowing whether the router in question is directly reachable by other routers, regardless of whether or not our router can reach it.
eyedeekay
^ that, and it seems to be used at times to optimize peer selection
eyedeekay
That's everything I had for 1, unless we have more orignal do you want to proceed with 2?
orignal
but how it can be used?
orignal
then 2
orignal
why we need to publush encrypted RI though a tunnel
dr|z3d
if a router is publishing U, then we know it's firewalled/natted.
dr|z3d
if it's publishing R, then it's reachable by _some_ other routers.
dr|z3d
so we can treat R and U differently.
dr|z3d
U might as well == degraded performance, and we can avoid those routers for client tunnels.
orignal
then why do we need both R and U?
dr|z3d
it's also possible to deny service to older U cap routers entirely. LU? not current. no dice. etc.
orignal
U = not R
orignal
I mean if no R it means U
orignal
why do we need two codes?
dr|z3d
R only becomes active when the router's bootstrapped.
dr|z3d
so there may be a small window where the router is neither R nor U.
eyedeekay
You know that's a worthwhile point. I wonder if we can assume U when not R, maybe we can.
eyedeekay
That's going to take some homework on my part, maybe we don't. Can't give you a good answer today
eyedeekay
But I will look into it
dr|z3d
sure, valid. if R/U is binary, then we only need U. or R.
dr|z3d
might be worth -m'ing the channel, eyedeekay, just in case there are bystanders who have something to add :)
eyedeekay
Thanks dr|z3d
eyedeekay
Anybody else on the channel?
eyedeekay
Also feel free to message me for voice
obscuratus
hi, or course.
dr|z3d
usual zzz practice, np. just noticed xeiaso commenting in #saltr.
xeiaso
This issues strikes me as bikeshedding.
dr|z3d
it's not bikeshedding, it's clarification of something orignal's not certain is required. refinement.
xeiaso
i2pd doesn't use the flags, R routers are still profiled.
orignal
we only publuish R and U for Java
eyedeekay
According to the spec, clients need to be able to handle missing caps regardless, which I gather is i2pd's primary method of determining these specific capabilities
orignal
we calculate it based on transports
eyedeekay
Regardless, Java I2P does make use of them and will make use of them in similar ways for the forseeable future
orignal
I use a bitmask intenally
eyedeekay
I would prefer that i2pd continue to publish them until we know better
orignal
no problem
orignal
as we agreed I publish R if there an IP addresses amoung transports
eyedeekay
Thanks
eyedeekay
OK how about 2: Encrypted RI's
eyedeekay
orignal go ahead
orignal
yes
orignal
so if we publish unecrypted RI through a tunnel OBEP can catch it and send rerple back
orignal
according to the instruction
orignal
I did it in i2pd unintentionally
orignal
but an advesary can do it intenitonally
orignal
e.g. you publish your RI and get confoirmation back
orignal
but it never reaches that FF
orignal
that's why we need to encrypt it
orignal
EOT
eyedeekay
So it can prevent you from publishing an RI? That's no good. Thanks for spotting it
eyedeekay
So how do you encrypt the RI?
orignal
yes
xeiaso
What about lookups? Can't the OBEP fake a reply for an unencrypted lookup?
orignal
you are supposed to encrypt it already in Java
orignal
gradpa did it long time ago but couldn't expalin a reason
orignal
beside "better to encrypt data going through OBEP/IBGW"
orignal
but now I see a real reson
orignal
and implemented in i2pd
eyedeekay
OK good
orignal
xeiaso lookup of what?
xeiaso
netdb lookup
dr|z3d
orignal: is it interoperable with java?
orignal
lookups for LS are always encrypted
orignal
dr|z3d encryption?
dr|z3d
yeah, RI encryption.
dr|z3d
I think we already do in most cases unless the router in question is slow perf.
orignal
while RI lookups usually are being sent directly
orignal
but yes good point
dr|z3d
but details are a bit fuzzy right now.
orignal
I will check
orignal
RI encryption is the same as for LS
orignal
just ECIES using flodfill's public key
orignal
slow perf for what?
orignal
for ECIES ecryption?
orignal
it's just single x25519
orignal
unlike ElGamal days
dr|z3d
slow perf being arm, android etc, but as I mentioned, details are a bit fuzzy. we have an isSlow() flag.
orignal
probably lookups through tunnels should be also encrypted as xeiaso mentioned
orignal
xeiaso also while you are here
orignal
you asked what whould happen if tunnel builc comes down though a tunnel
orignal
basically nothing unless they know your RI already
orignal
and can encryopt a record just for you
xeiaso
right. but RIs are public and you can scrape the netdb for them
orignal
but yes there is non-zero posiibility of such attack, so it should dropped
orignal
see my point
orignal
you see and LS and trying to indenfyn it's router
orignal
but sending tunnel build message
orignal
though one of IB
orignal
but you need to know router already for doing it
orignal
e.g. you can't find a router but you can't only confirm if that's the router you suspect where LS is
xeiaso
with enough tries it's the same thing
orignal
not really because you never have whole ntedb
orignal
but better to drop it anyway
xeiaso
why wouldn't an attacker have the whole netdb? stats.i2p used to collect RIs
eyedeekay
I would challenge the idea that nobody ever has the whole NetDB, somebody with a little time and money can probably get a pretty good picture of a contemporary netDB, they might not have all of it all the time
eyedeekay
But they can have a lot of it, maybe as near as makes no matter
orignal
because netdb keeps changing all the time
orignal
eyedeekay as I said I agree that there is a possibility
orignal
and we should avoid it
xeiaso
key rotations happen every how long? that's how long a RI would be useful for.
orignal
nodays we can't exlude any scenario
eyedeekay
Yeah better to be safe
orignal
because attach re real
xeiaso
and an attacker can try RIs as they come across them
orignal
*attacks are real
orignal
and we must be prepared for any possibility
dr|z3d
"abundance of caution"
eyedeekay
Agreed, better to drop before the possibility of an attack
xeiaso
drop before the attack could succeed. the attack is real.
orignal
also TunnelGateway
orignal
DatabseStore is more complicated
orignal
because it contains reply instructions
obscuratus
Let me make sure I got this straight. RI and LS in an encrypted Garlic Message are OK, but regular unencrypted I2NP RI and LS should be dropped?
orignal
no
orignal
depends on how they received
orignal
if you receive it down a tunnel
orignal
you should drop reply instruction
orignal
you can't just drop DatabaseStore because it might be reponse to your lookup
xeiaso
so uh canon i2p should drop weird inbound tunnel packets too
eyedeekay
Yes it looks like it
eyedeekay
We may need to study the impact it has first
eyedeekay
But yes
eyedeekay
Anything else for 2/2.5?
orignal
no
eyedeekay
All right, good meeting everyone, thanks very much for coming. See you around IRC.
eyedeekay
Just FYI, I will be offline Thursday night and most of Friday so I can go meet with my the install technician from my ISP
RN
\o/
dr|z3d
you can toggle +m now eyedeekay :)
dr|z3d
out of an abundance of caution :)
xeiaso
unless he's already afk... :)
dr|z3d
*thumbs up* RN
RN
:)
RN
hey, got a ? for you
RN
you said a while ago, IIRC that it was easy to switch plus from redirecting to https for the console?
RN
I'm not finding in my notes or in the config pages
RN
I tried removing the "-s 7667" part but that didn't work
RN
removing from clients
RN
now HE went afk.
eyedeekay
I'm back, just took out the trash
dr|z3d
the config is listed on /help/advancedsettings
RN
thanks
dr|z3d
routerconsole.redirectToHTTPS={true|false}
RN
so if I leave the -s the https will still work, just not forced right?
dr|z3d
correct.
dr|z3d
I think when you're modding the listening ports, a router restart is required.
RN
perfect
dr|z3d
that config I don't think requires a restart, however.
RN
that was what I feared... but if turning off the redirect affects jsonrpc too then I should be good