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#ls2
/2023/02/16
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dr|z3d zzz: re buckets, a separate but related proposal. hard limit for U peers @ 10% of total netdb.
zzz thats hard but my recent changes to netdb HFDSMJ do pretty much the same thing when over limits
zzz pls review those changes w.r.t. "unsolicited" stores
dr|z3d I usually see < 10% until around 4K peers, then it ramps, and beyond around 5-6K peers, significant majority of new peers are U.
dr|z3d you pushed something lately?
dr|z3d let me have a look..
zzz few days ago
dr|z3d ah, then the code's already running all over.
zzz those changes are doing a good job at keeping a lid on things
dr|z3d > NetDB: Store handler updates
zzz over the last two weeks I'm down from ~10k to ~5k RIs on my ff
zzz sounds right
dr|z3d 5K is sane, 10K, not so much.
zzz basically try to classify netdb store as "unsolicited" or not, drop the former aggressively if necessary
dr|z3d I thought we already recognized unsolicited stores?
zzz LS not RI
dr|z3d recent issue then?
zzz you may have diverged so far from me and dropping so much that you're not seeing any effect from my changes
zzz I'm still not sure if 'netdb spam' was from directly-connecting peers (aka solicited) or some sort of netdb mass store spam
dr|z3d it's possible. but I'm not seeing any negative effects of said change, so carry on. :)
zzz it's helping but not really sure whats going on, then or now
dr|z3d yeah, I never saw a huge hike in LS stores, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.
zzz speaking of divergence
zzz want a pointer to about 8 bugs in 3 lines?
dr|z3d always happy to receive your feeback as you know, especially when it's packaged so nicely, bow and all :)
zzz I'll refrain from negativity other than to say do better...
zzz PersistentDataStore.write()
zzz RouterInfo ri = _context.netDb().lookupRouterInfoLocally(key);
zzz boolean isHidden = _context.router().isHidden();
zzz RouterInfo us = _context.netDb().lookupRouterInfoLocally(_context.routerHash());
zzz boolean isUs = us != null && us.equals(_context.routerHash());
zzz 1) don't lookup your own RI in the netdb. do ctx.router().getRouterInfo()
zzz 2) you're looking to compare if the thing being stored is your router
zzz 3) the RI in question being stored is passed to you, i.e. databaseentry data
zzz 4) why are you looking it up again by key
zzz 5) if you want to see if it is yourself, just compare hashes
zzz i.e. key.equals(_context.routerHash())
zzz 6) us.equals(_context.routerHash()) you are comparing a RouterInfo to a Hash. That will always return false. The compiler does not save you with equals() that are impossible
zzz all in all just really really not right
zzz EOT
dr|z3d thanks
zzz Cat cat; Dog dog; cat.equals(dog) will always return false, compiler won't tell you, you have to run findbugs to catch that stuff
dr|z3d ok, I'll be mindful of not assuming cat equals dog (or not) in future.
zzz yes it's a waste of 1KB of disk space to save your own RI to disk but your code never fires because of all the bugs, suggest you spend your time on more important things and/or test more
zzz yeah impossible equals() is a trap, very hard to see or find those
zzz but never lookup your own RI in the netdb and don't lookup anything if you have it already
dr|z3d the intention of that code is not to keep my own RI off the disk, it's to keep all the crap RIs off the disk.
dr|z3d ok, noted, thanks.
zzz just compare hashes not RIs
zzz and definitely not one to the other :)
dr|z3d got it :)
zzz if I wasn't clear, also, the DatabaseEntry passed in _is_ the RI being stored
zzz dont go back and forth RI to hash to RI to hash. pick one or the other. don't get RI unless you need it, which you don't for basic isUs decisions
dr|z3d RouterInfo ri = _context.netDb().lookupRouterInfoLocally(key);
dr|z3d boolean isHidden = _context.router().isHidden();
dr|z3d RouterInfo us = _context.router().getRouterInfo();
dr|z3d boolean isUs = us != null && key.equals(_context.routerHash());
dr|z3d ok, I guess it's pretty much irrelevant there anyways. write our own RI to disk or not, doesn't matter.
dr|z3d and I can lose the RouterInfo us altogether is what you're saying I think.
dr|z3d RouterInfo ri.. ok, getting there :)
dr|z3d so really all I need there is:
dr|z3d boolean isHidden = _context.router().isHidden();
dr|z3d boolean isUs = key.equals(_context.routerHash());
dr|z3d the rest is cruft.
dr|z3d maybe I do need: RouterInfo ri = _context.netDb().lookupRouterInfoLocally(key); for the version stuff, but yeah.
zzz right
zzz even if you did want to check, all you need was key.equals(ctx.routerHash())\
zzz no lookups reqd
dr|z3d so just 3 lines. I like it, much cleaner. thanks for the guidance.
dr|z3d RouterInfo ri = _context.netDb().lookupRouterInfoLocally(key);
zzz no no dont do lookups
dr|z3d boolean isHidden = _context.router().isHidden();
zzz you don't need RIs
dr|z3d boolean isUs = key.equals(_context.routerHash());
dr|z3d yeah, I don't know why I was looking up my own RI, must have copied code from somewhere in error.
zzz and even if you did, the RI for the key was passed in as databaseentry
zzz hash comparison is sufficient
zzz don't go back and forth hash/ri/hash
dr|z3d ok, I can extract RI info from the hash without a lookup?
zzz you don't need RI to know if it is you
dr|z3d that's not the main point of that code.
zzz if you want to look at caps, then yes you need it
zzz so yeah
dr|z3d if (ri != null) {
dr|z3d v = ri.getVersion();
dr|z3d unreachable = ri.getCapabilities().indexOf(Router.CAPABILITY_UNREACHABLE) >= 0;
dr|z3d caps = ri.getCapabilities();
zzz but just do RouterInfo ri = (RouterInfo) data
zzz the ri is passed in
orignal DtQs: 180.190.85.189:31157 => [1499:1066]
orignal seem no problem with it
zzz up to you orignal but it's on a different IP every minute
orignal DtQs: 50.159.167.46:41932 => [1488:0]
orignal but what's with it?
dr|z3d it's daf, orignal.
orignal what is daf?
dr|z3d dodgy as fsck.
orignal who cares?
dr|z3d the network cares.
dr|z3d especially when it's requesting a huge number of tunnels.
orignal I mean if they change IP every minute
dr|z3d up to no good.
orignal they don't publish any IP
dr|z3d thanks, zzz, (RouterInfo) data; compiles just fine.
dr|z3d ip changes every minute wouldn't be a problem of itself, it's the huge number of requests that are problematic.
dr|z3d the two together indicate either a poorly configured router/vpn combo, or malicious intent. either way, undesirable on the network.
orignal but since they don't publish thier IP they are allowed to do it
dr|z3d not if you blacklist the hash.
orignal and they don;t publish instroducers for SSU2
orignal most likely they use proxy
dr|z3d they're using a vpn no doubt.
zzz there are really bad routers out there. this is an example. By not banning it you hurt the network. This is an example of why you need a ban list
orignal router.version=^F0.9.55
zzz but I guess we still haven't convinced you. Oh well. I tried.
orignal but you did't provide any reason why should I ban him
orignal changing IP is not enough
dr|z3d a HUGE number of tunnel requests in a very short timeframe.
orignal that's another question
dr|z3d keep an eye on him, you'll see orignal..
zzz I'll try again some other day
orignal so the problem is not change IPs but tunnel requests
dr|z3d don't give up, zzz, we're getting somewhere, I can feel it :)
dr|z3d yes, orignal
dr|z3d it's the amount of resources he's asking from the network.
orignal huge number of requests, yes, it makes sense
dr|z3d more tolerable from an XR class router that's also serving a bunch of tunnels, not so much from an unreachable (L?) class router about as useful to the network as a marzipan dildo..
zzz change IP every minute is enough reason by itself
zzz you would never be able to connect to it
zzz even with introducers
orignal might be just a VPN
zzz it's a terrible VPN then
dr|z3d it _is_ a VPN.
zzz if you can't keep the same IP for one minute you are totally f'ed
orignal zzz, how do you think i2pd build inbound tunnels through Tor?
dr|z3d probably the VPN has been explicitly configured to rotate IPs every minute, which leads one to question the motives of the router's operator.
orignal so what's the theshold? 1 IP per minute?
zzz the threshold is we identified this router is causing a lot of problems and is totally braindamaged so we banned it manually with our ban list
zzz if you have a ban list then it is possible
orignal then tell me the threshold for IP change
dr|z3d which raises an interesting question..
dr|z3d can we track ip changes per RI and start auto-banning if they reach a certain threshold per period, zzz?
dr|z3d orignal's looking for some automated response, not a bad idea.
dr|z3d (for everyone)
dr|z3d 5 ips per hour, zzz? what do we think?
zzz this is not about automated thresholds.
zzz it's about making a decision to manually ban very bad routers
zzz if this example didn't convince orignal I will provide some more some later time
orignal I prefer automatic
dr|z3d yeah, that's what I thought.
dr|z3d if orignal wants to automate banning bad routers, then he needs a threshold, which, if it snags our bad router and more, is totally fine. and probably worth considering for java.
orignal more than 1 IP change in 5 minutes ban for 1 hour
dr|z3d if we work on the basis that a leaseset is 10m, then 5 per hour seems like about the max you'd want for a semi-stable router, no?
dr|z3d so more than 1 ip change every 12m = ban perhaps?
orignal for how long?
dr|z3d depends how often you want to keep banning. 4h seems about right?
orignal agree
zzz we do manual permanent banning by analysis, not a rule book. If you want to use your own rule book, fine
zzz automated banning is different
zzz DtQs was banned manually after analysis and discussion
zzz our automated permanent/temporary banning is completely different
zzz no we don't have automated banning for IP changes
orignal then we should
dr|z3d seconded.
zzz I brought it up as an example of why a ban list is good and necessary. Argue about the rules some other day
dr|z3d not disagreeing about a banlist, it's a handy tool of last resort, but does require manual intervention. otoh, a rules based system that excludes routers we can't connect to, as you said, is also a good idea, especially if it catches our badly behaved router and others like it.
dr|z3d orignal: what about an opt in for the existing java banlist?
orignal manual banlist takes YOUR time
dr|z3d (in i2pd)
orignal maybe
orignal need to write the code first
dr|z3d yup, that's what I'm getting at, it's a manual intervention thing.
zzz this is item 3) from the recommendations. Identify bad peers and don't propagate their info through the network
zzz manual vs. auto is an irrelevant detail right now
zzz stop bad peers
dr|z3d subscribing to a global banlist in i2pd does 2 things. 1) removes the requirement to vet all ips separately from java and 2) gives you input into what makes it on the list.
zzz you are damaging the network if you don't
orignal so I prefer automatic
dr|z3d ips/hashes whatever.
dr|z3d for the existing banlist, you'd just need to pull in the xml, orignal. you'd probably also want to implement a manual banlist where the user can add their own bans.
dr|z3d for automated bans, you'd probably want to maintain a list that writes to disk so it's session-persistent.
dr|z3d which is what java i2p does for sybil bans.
zzz if i2pd wants to trust java i2p manual banning decisions, you can use our blocklist feed. But it doesn't sound like you do trust our decisions. that's fine.
dr|z3d he's not dead set against, zzz: <orignal> need to write the code first
dr|z3d using java's list also gets him a ticket to the party. so there's that :)
orignal ofc I'm not going to receive your feed
orignal but can process your su3 manually
dr|z3d sure, pull the feed on a server somewhere, tweak as required, then serve as your own feed.
orignal do you have an example of your file?
zzz I get it, I'm sure you don't want me controlling your network ))
orignal zzz, it's not about control
zzz not offended ))
orignal even if we had such feed it will come from our source
zzz or roll your own
orignal why xml not json?
zzz the dr|z3d link above is a subset of the feed
zzz it is what it is
orignal for me it can be just flat list
zzz if you want to parse ours, that's the spec, use it or don't
zzz ok I got the probabalistic inbound conn throttler working
zzz fine tuning it now
zzz it has to be really tight to be effective
zzz so tight I also had to write an "exemption" system so inbound tunnel builds can bypass it
zzz 02-16 14:26:46.399 WARN [NTCP Pumper ] ter.transport.ntcp.EventPumper: Probabalistically dropping incoming (p=36/128 last rate 28/min current rate 31
dr|z3d nice, nice
zzz goal is to not slam to 1K conns 2 minutes after startup
dr|z3d sure, incline should be gradual, not ridiculous.
dr|z3d are you testing it on something that sees that amount of traffic post-startup?
zzz esp. ffs get hammered
zzz taken about 25 restarts to fix it and dial it in but I'm getting close
dr|z3d good. I have every confidence you'll have something you're happy with when you're finished.
zzz as usual, started testing on a slow router, moving to faster routers as it gets better
dr|z3d are we going to graph/stat the drops?
zzz what are your tcp/udp conn limits on your biggest router (assuming not set manually) ?
dr|z3d I think I set them manually, but let me look at the code, see what the defaults are.
zzz or have you tweaked the defaults too?
dr|z3d ofc. :)
zzz then what are typ. tcp/udp conn counts on biggest router?
dr|z3d I don't know what counts as the biggest router right now, but I'm looking at ~1600 NTCP, ~400 SSU2 on the console I've got open.
dr|z3d usually more, let me find another to look at.
zzz I think I want to tune it to get to full or typ. capacity in 15 minutes or so
dr|z3d about the same on another (usually) high bw router.
zzz ok thx
zzz nothing crazy
dr|z3d both those routers doing much less b/w than usual, so maybe a quiet day in paradise.
dr|z3d maybe 15, 3, 5 are approx targets to hit in 15m, for ntcp/ssu1,ssu2.
dr|z3d somewhere in that ballpark, anyways.
zzz huh?
zzz 15 3 5 is what?
dr|z3d 1500, 300, 500.
dr|z3d or just 1500, 750 (ssu1/2 combined).
zzz interesting: Java 20 is going to have optimized AVX-512 implemenations of ChaCha20 and Poly1305
zzz zowie. testing throttler on ff
zzz I dropped 1399 inbound conns in first 90 seconds
zzz I think I'm onto something here :)
zzz orignal, do you connect directly to ff to store your RI or do you send it through expl. tunnel?
dr|z3d haha, very nice, zzz. "yes we can!" :)
zzz ok -9 pushed, not perfect but better than before
dr|z3d baby steps, as you're want to say :)
dr|z3d so we're logging the rejections via the EventPumper?
zzz pumper does ntcp, Est. Mgr does SSU
dr|z3d rgr that
zzz hard to miss
zzz esp at startup
zzz but you can see in the pic I dialed it right in at 15 minutes, at least for that ff
dr|z3d yeah, see that.
zzz non-ffs will look different and are more idiosyncratic
zzz next on my list is to take a closer look at ff peer selector
dr|z3d I think we need to drill down on what constitutes a good ff, and remove the ff flag from anything that doesn't meet the grade.
dr|z3d U, transports disabled, K,L,M.. remove flag.
dr|z3d and prevent force-floodfill from working if those conditions are met.
zzz the "remove flag" is orignal terminology/concept. For us it would be simply tweaking the criteria for "bad"
dr|z3d I'd be happier seeing the flag removed altogether so it doesn't show up in the console.
dr|z3d but whatever works.
zzz due to differences in the way we store RIs we can't do what you propose.
zzz we have all the mechanisms and knobs we need in all the right places
dr|z3d ok, no biggie. I thought because we can remove caps from router we could store those, but not worth worrying about.
zzz just need to figure out which one to turn and how much
dr|z3d so, flags aside, what do you think about hardening the requirements for ff?
zzz for auto-FF? I don't see any reason
dr|z3d the main motivations are twofold: firstly, more performant floodfills on the network by eliminating U and slow tier routers; secondly, increasing the barrier to entry by requiring both transports enabled.
zzz I believe all that is in place now; please review current criteria first
dr|z3d the requirements would cut both ways, both for auto/forced ff, and for how we grade them (ie bad or not)
dr|z3d we don't require both transports enabled, re the rest, I think you're broadly correct, though we don't have any limiters on the forced-floodfill option right now.
zzz any proposal must be w.r.t. current criteria and include an estimate of what % of current ffs would be eliminated
dr|z3d ok, here's some stats: current ffs in netdb: ~1700, excluded ffs based on disabled transport (SSU): ~475.
zzz and what % are java
dr|z3d that I can't tell you :)
dr|z3d what I can tell you is that most of those excluded ffs are probably hostile based on recent behavior.
zzz your proposal would only affect java routers, so your estimate of eliminated ffs must take that into account
zzz and I don't believe your facts are right re: our criteria, so please redo your research before making your proposal