#ls2 (irc2p) | #ls2 proposal review channel

dr|z3d I've encouraged them via an initial approach to rambler to jump on irc, they want some help with configuration etc. they should be around later.

zzz what's rambler's involvement?

dr|z3d go between. they got in touch with him because he's visible on twitter and has promoted purokishi.

zzz I know they got some help from acetone already

dr|z3d last I heard they were having issues with the speed of the outproxies they're running, but I guess we'll find out more later if they appear here.

zzz I started this several days ago, we're trying to provide motivation on multiple fronts, several people involved

dr|z3d sure, it looks it's working :)

zzz I do think your experience/advice will be useful, we just have to be careful to guide them with requirements and let them arrive at a solution that works for their setup

dr|z3d indeed. I don't think a prescriptive approach is what they need, and I'm starting on that basis.

dr|z3d open mind..

zzz super. if the motivation works perhaps we can have a default in 3 months, but they haven't offered a timeline and I haven't asked

zzz obviously we need this release out first to get them out of sybil jail

dr|z3d true, true. 100 high bandwidth routers in the doghouse obviously not optimal for the network at large :)

zzz esp. when we're banning them but i2pd isn't

dr|z3d we have sybil detection, i2pd has trusted routers. each could do with the other :)

zzz we have trusted routers via same-family

dr|z3d I was looking at that recently and it looks like it's work in progress, wasn't aware you could nominate a family for the first hop?

zzz no

dr|z3d I was referring to this:

dr|z3d * For future restricted routes. Does nothing now.

dr|z3d */

dr|z3d class BuildTrustedLinksJob extends JobImpl {

zzz that dates back to jrandom

dr|z3d there's also protected boolean shouldSelectExplicit(TunnelPoolSettings settings) in TunnelPeerSelector, presumably the same intent.

zzz I suppose there's several things you might do or not do with routers that are 'trusted', I don't have a list, nor do I know what i2pd does

dr|z3d i2pd allows you to nominate specific routers (and/or families?) to use exclusively for the first hop.

dr|z3d though sybil detection and restricted routes may appear orthogonal issues, they're both sybil mitigation strategies I guess.

zzz explicit works and I use it for testing

zzz I also have out of tree mods to force a particular ff for lookups/stores

zzz it's all extremely fragile and can croak the whole router if the specified router is down or rejects or isn't found or or or

dr|z3d currently just supports a single router hash?

dr|z3d oh, it's a list.

zzz explicit is a list, my ff stuff is try-this-one-first

zzz explicit right now only does it a % of the time, as an easy workaround to the issues above

dr|z3d so if that was extended to accept families, both the explicitPeers option, and your ff mod (in addition to a list), might be more robust.

dr|z3d explict and ff patch could just fallback to normal routing in the event the nominated router(s) aren't found.

dr|z3d with a nice WARN level message in the logs, obviously :)

zzz for explicit you have to have the RI already because there's no code path to do a lookup

dr|z3d ok, and fallback is 0 hop it looks like?

zzz and I don't think it's for first hop, just for somewhere

dr|z3d that seems dodgy.

dr|z3d presumably invoking SingleSearchJob wouldn't be too much of a stretch, in the event the RI isn't found, or an iterative search?

zzz there's some 10-15 year old post on my forum of all the things "restricted routes" *might* mean, with possible use cases

zzz you're thinking implementation, you're not thinking top down what is this for and how would it work reliably

dr|z3d a good start would probably be feature parity with i2pd, and sure, you're probably right, though I have _some_ idea of potential use cases.

zzz sure

zzz zzz.i2p/topics/114 (2008)

dr|z3d thanks

zzz whatever the goal is, it's not 'fix janky test configs'

zzz nor is it 'find ancient jrandom stubs and finish them'

dr|z3d :)

zzz gotta come at it from the other direction

dr|z3d absolutely. namely "how could this benefit us now?"

dr|z3d > hide IP complelely (hidden + restricted routes).. check.. geoip (include/exclude country or country list).. check.. frustrate sybil attacks.. check...