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#ls2
/2022/02/10
@eyedeekay
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zzz eyedeekay, you need some help with what the UpdateManager is doing with that key?
zzz it's an internal opaque hashcode and it's not going to tell you anything
zzz what I'm doing is a little subtle and uncommented so holler and I'll explain it
eyedeekay Actually zzz I think I just needed to know where it was failing, turns out I was checking on the wrong object when trying to retrieve the context, which was causing my UpdatePostProcessor to never register
eyedeekay The hashcode is indeed unhelpful but it not being in the error message led me to what was actually going on
zzz eyedeekay, the key is going to be a random 10 digit number which isn't appropriate for display to the user
zzz it's just a combination of the update type and the file type used as an internal key
zzz there's a hundred ways to key off of the combination of two things A and B, since it's internal and opaque it doesn't matter
zzz so I took the easiest and fugliest
zzz if you want to display both A and B, then display ftype + ' ' + updateType
zzz but the key is meaningless
eyedeekay Ack I'll change it to ftype + ' ' + updateType since that's actually a little helpful
eyedeekay Thanks zzz
zzz np, it's hackish and not commented, so I'm sure it wasn't obvious
orignal zzz please confirm that for SessionRequest we do 3 encryptions
orignal 16 bytes XOR, 48 bytes Chacha, and payload with AEAD/Chacha/Poly
orignal I also couldn't understand the idea with XOR
orignal if you have to call chacha twice for every single packet
orignal because you take nonce from end of packet
zzz correct
zzz actually 4 chachas. there's two xors, for 0-7 and 8-15
orignal that can be compined to one
orignal *combined
orignal but why xor not chacha directy?
zzz no they can't be combined to one
zzz the xor thing is copied from QUIC
orignal you xor 16 bytes instead 2 8 bytes
orignal what's a difference?
orignal for 16 byte you can use "pxor" instruction in Intel
zzz the first 8 bytes (almost) always uses the same key
zzz the second 8 bytes uses a different key in different phases
orignal why does it matter if you use different nonce
orignal e.g. how can it help
orignal even if keys is the same
orignal you still have to call chach20 for each packet
zzz the first 8 bytes is the conn id. it almost always uses your intro key so you can quickly map a packet to a connection without complex heuristics
zzz the second 8 bytes is the packet number, it's critical data so it needs a key derived from the handshake
zzz see 'Nonces are Noticed' paper
zzz the chart of when to use what key is under i2p-projekt.i2p/spec/proposals/159#header-encryption
zzz that section now also has a long list of goals we're trying to accomplish with header encryption
zzz that's what I've been working on the last couple weeks
orignal I still don't undertstand
orignal before I enncrypt first 8 bytes
orignal I have to call chacha20 with nonce from end of packet
orignal basically payload
zzz right
orignal even worse, random padding
zzz no, there's no random padding outside the payload
zzz all padding is in a padding block
orignal them please tell me what we use for nonce
orignal last 24 bytes, no?
zzz correct, AFTER encryption of the payload
zzz here's the processing steps:
zzz Outbound Packet Creation
zzz Handshake messages (Session Request/Created/Confirmed, Retry) basic steps, in order:
zzz Create 16 or 32 byte header
zzz Create body
zzz mixHash() the header (except for Retry)
zzz Encrypt the body using Noise (except for Retry, use ChaChaPoly)
zzz Encrypt the header, and for Session Request/Created, the ephemeral key
zzz Data phase messages basic steps, in order:
zzz Create 16-byte header
zzz Create body
zzz Encrypt the body using ChaChaPoly using the header as AD
zzz Encrypt the header
orignal so, you encrypt with chacha/poly
orignal and then use last 24 bytes
zzz correct
orignal with tag of without tag?
zzz there are no tags in this protocol
zzz only a header
orignal I mean 16 bytes poly
orignal where do you take 24 bytes from?
zzz the last 24 bytes of the encrypted message, including the MAC. So it's the 8 bytes before the MAC, plus the MAC, to make 24 bytes
orignal what is payload is zero?
zzz this is after payload encryption, so it won't be zero
orignal or it must be at least 8 bytes?
zzz oh, zero size?
orignal it could be 16
orignal payload of zero size
orignal why not?
zzz We may have to require a minimum 8 byte size
orignal chacha/poly will ropduce 16 bytes
orignal and you need 8 bytes more
orignal therefore SessionRequest is not 80+ bytes
orignal but 88+
zzz right, which is no big deal, a payload block header is 3 bytes, a padding block header is 3 bytes, a datetime block is 7 bytes
orignal got it
orignal so datetime is required for SessionRequest
zzz yes
zzz and datetime and address blocks are required for SessionCreated
orignal now. how are you going to xor?
zzz and RI block is required for SessionConfirmed
zzz what do you mean how?
orignal byte by byte?
zzz yes
orignal or you use something?
zzz who cares, xor is 100x faster than the chacha
zzz you can do all 8 at once if that's easier, doesn't matter
orignal just asking
zzz it's a java thing, its
zzz it's not easy to switch back and forth between bytes and longs
orignal thinking if I should align to 8
orignal no unions in Java?
orignal anyway let me change
zzz I'm happy you're asking questions and asking why. I feel like it's taken me a year to really understand the problems and fit the whole thing in my head all at once
zzz it doesn't feel impossible any more :)