@eyedeekay
&zzz
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eyedeekay
gitea is down and it's 12:30AM, so it's going to be down until I get back to work on it this morning
eyedeekay
Sorry about the outage but I don't have an all-nighter in me today
eyedeekay
Never mind it's back, might be gone again in the morning but if it is I'll be able to fix it, I've not got it restarting itself because I want to see the error when it happens again
eyedeekay
I did have to restore a backup, but it was from early this afternoon. There's a chance we lost a little, but not much.
segfault
guys, could you tell me how to read this
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-> e
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<- e, ee, s, es
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from noise protocol specification?
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i don't understand
zzz
RTFM Noise spec sec. 2.2; e means eph. key is sent and mixHash()ed; s means static key is sent and mixHash()ed, XY means do a DH and mixKey() with alice's X and bob's Y
zzz
it's literally the first page of the spec ))
segfault
zzz: i know, i mean i don't understand "->" and "<-". e is eph keypair, but private key shouldn't be sent, right?
zzz
ofc not. DH is always his pubic and your private
zzz
-> means sent from alice to bob, and <- vice versa
zzz
the thing that took me quite a while to understand about the noise spec:
zzz
it's not a protocol specification, it's a _state machine_ specification
segfault
zzz: sounds logical
segfault
zzz: i guess authors should write something like this: "->e.public"
segfault
because just "e" isn't enough clear
zzz
the spec is impossibly hard to grasp until you get in Trevor's head. If you fight it you will lose
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trevor's head?
zzz
the author
zzz
actually it's even worse than a state machine spec. It's a chinese menu of possible state machine specs, pick one from column A, column B, ... to get your meal
segfault
zzz: i guess graphical graph is the best way to describe state machine
zzz
draw as many pictures as you need until you understand it
segfault
zzz: what means " <- e, ee". "<-e" looks ok, but why sending eph bob's key to alice again and tell alice's eph to alice?
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alice must know her's eph key
segfault
her*
zzz
nothing is sent twice
zzz
single char means send it
zzz
two chars means do a DH
segfault
zzz: aha
segfault
zzz: thx
segfault
zzz: so that means bob to alice sent: bob's eph public key and dh(alice's eph public key, bob's eph public key), right?
segfault
could you (and other guys also) tell me what is difference between static and eph keys for? in classic algorithms only private and public keys. what's the reason to and 2 kind of keys?
segfault
zzz:
segfault
in classic algorithms there are only private and public keys*
segfault
what's the reason to use 2 kind of keys?*
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and why there is in aead:
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-> e
segfault
<- e, ee, s, es
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-> s, se
segfault
not this:
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-> e, s
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<- e, ee, s, es
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-> se
segfault
?
zzz
eph keys are for forward secrecy, go read up on that
segfault
zzz: thx
segfault
zzz: one more question. why dh required? if alice have bob's public key and bob have alice's public key, alice can encrypt random both sym key by bob's public key and send it and bob can verify alice's message by her key