IRCaBot 2.1.0
GPLv3 © acetone, 2021-2022
#ls2
/2022/05/09
@eyedeekay
+RN
+RN_
+T3s|4
+Xeha
+acetone
+orignal
+weko
Irc2PGuest32033
Leopold_
Onn4l7h
Onn4|7h
R4SAS
T3s|4_
aargh2
anon2
cancername
eyedeekay_bnc
hk
not_bob_afk
profetikla
shiver_
u5657
x74a6
zzz 0) Hi
zzz what's on the agenda for today?
orignal as usual SSU2
eyedeekay I have: go-i2p progress, WebExtension update
zzz ok 1) ssu2; 2) go-i2p; 3) web extension
zzz I'll add 4) RIs for connected peers
orignal good point
zzz 1) SSU2
zzz no news here, no progress
orignal well I have implemented HolePnch
orignal message
zzz nice
zzz I hope to catch up soon
orignal as usual failed to start implemting peer test
orignal but going to today
zzz promises from both sides then :)
orignal and question for you
zzz go ahead
orignal when your router becomes firewalled
orignal what do you publish in SSU for introducers?
orignal I mean SSU address supporting SSU2
orignal once I tried to connect to your firewalled router
zzz I guess everything that I publish for SSU, plus ih0-2
orignal so do you actually publish SSU2 introducers or not?
zzz no, it's not coded yet
orignal then what do I see?
zzz I guess everything that I normally publish for SSU. there's no changes
orignal how about ih?
orignal I recognize ssu2 introducers if no iPort
zzz no, there's no code for publishing ih, unless I forgot
orignal probably my bug
orignal need to double check
zzz I just double checked, no code yet
orignal so I assume I can't connect to you thorugh SSU2 yet in this case
zzz right
orignal becaseu I have the code for it already
zzz anything else on 1) ?
orignal will start implemting publishing
zzz 2) go-i2p
zzz what do you have for us eyedeekay ?
eyedeekay Just a small update:
eyedeekay go-i2p I'm back to making somewhat steady progress, I'm gradually checking in the big refactor onto main
eyedeekay last week I did everything below Key Certificates, this week(today) I'll be checking in KeysandCert, RouterAddress, and RouterInfo
eyedeekay next week I should be up to lease sets and session tags, which will finish up the the common library refactor
eyedeekay after that the crypto refactor, also part of my previous three attempts, which I'm going to try and do at about the same pase, 1-3 important structures a week
eyedeekay Setting that as a goal rather than trying to do it all at once is making it much more reasonable to accomplish, sorry it took so dang long to come to that conclusion
eyedeekay I'm going to try and do these every week to keep up to date
zzz sure, if you want to use weekly reports to keep yourself moving, that's fine with me
zzz it's a long road ahead
eyedeekay Yeah I'm way the heck behind but I figure I can do better at this pace now
orignal how about Noise?
zzz whatever you can do to stay organized and make progress is great
eyedeekay Still behind on transports orignal, I've been underwater with plugins and the common library refactor for months
orignal Noise is not only transports
orignal also tunnel build, publishing, lookup, ratchets
orignal it's everywhere now
orignal basic crypto primitive I would say
eyedeekay I'll have to have another look after the common library refactor, it will probably be most important when I do the crypto refactor
zzz doesn't sound like he's there yet
zzz baby steps
zzz anything else on 2) ?
eyedeekay Yeah I bit off a lot here for a guy with very little real-world network engineering experience
eyedeekay Nothing else from me for 2
zzz 3) Web Extension update
zzz please start with a reminder of what it is before the update :)
eyedeekay I2P in private browsing is a Firefox extension which provides integrations for I2P, including automatic proxy management and isolation of identities between applications
eyedeekay It's designed to avoid attacks from the browser and make configuring I2P browsers easier-to-automatic
eyedeekay I2P in Private Browsing had a couple significant updates this cycle which affect people outside of just the Java I2P core project userbase
zzz "I2P in private browsing Firefox extension" == "Web Extension" ?
eyedeekay the most exciting one is translations, they're automatically generated from the English text but they are now due to be released after the 1.8.0 release
eyedeekay Yes that is correct
zzz phew, I'm with you
eyedeekay WebExtensions is the name of the API for modern browser extensions, I write 3 of them so I use that shorthand, my bad
eyedeekay New languages are: Arabic, German, French, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese, Russian, and Chinese
zzz you have a new transifex project? or where are you getting the translations from?
orignal no Spanish ?
orignal but German and Italian?
eyedeekay Already had Spanish, did that one by hand
eyedeekay I'm hosting a machine translation generation service inside of I2P to bootstrap it,
eyedeekay Libretranslate, it's at translate.idk.i2p
eyedeekay Open to everybody, no API keys required
zzz and what's the source of the machine translation data?
eyedeekay Argos Translate, argosopentech.com
zzz what was the basis of the decision to use that instead of humans at transifex, and what validation have you done that the result is of good enough quality to put in a released product of ours?
zzz what was the basis of the decision to use that instead of humans at transifex, and what validation have you done that the result is of good enough quality to put in a released product of ours?
eyedeekay I have tried to either reverse the translations by hand where I can, Spanish and French, or asked specific community members to review them, or have attempted to perform the reverse process, of translating the new translations back into English, using both the same and third-party translation API's(Google, Bing) to confirm that they are not too corrupted
zzz how many source strings are there?
eyedeekay About 90
eyedeekay It's mostly short, one-to-two sentence bits of text that show up when specific things happen, like an I2P site presents an HTTPS certificate or you click on a magnet link
zzz interesting
zzz well, you didn't tell us anything about why this was preferable to transifex, but it sounds like you did at least some work to make sure it isn't terrible
eyedeekay They all come in these json files under _locales/lang/messages.json, which I didn't know for sure how to integrate with transifex and didn't quite know how to experiment with without some translations to start with
zzz formatting issues are always solvable and shouldn't in themselves be a reason to go straight to a particular backend for translation
eyedeekay That's why I started with doing Spanish by hand then tried the machine translation angle.
eyedeekay Goal was always to move them to Transifex if I figured out how to solve them
eyedeekay But I felt like I would have an easier time of it if I had somewhere to start
zzz anything else on 3) ?
eyedeekay Also translation services inside of I2P seemed like a helpful thing, I get a lot of messages in Russian which I can't read
eyedeekay Nothing else on 3)
eyedeekay Oh wait I'm wrong
zzz wait, it's translating on the fly?
eyedeekay No it's not doing that
zzz oh, maybe just a platform for other possible things then?
eyedeekay there is an extension from the Libretranslate community that can do that which I thought about integrating but it's a later time thing
eyedeekay Yeah right now I'm using it to do machine translation in my IRC client
zzz anything else on 3) ?
orignal give me an example you can't read
orignal I mean in Russian
eyedeekay I can't read *any* Russian personally, I don't speak it
eyedeekay I've got an OK grasp on Spanish and could probably embarass myself all the way to a French airport but that's what I've got
orignal you should start learning it, as everybdy in I2P ))
eyedeekay Yeah probably
zzz here's an example he can't read: работает (that's one word I know)
orignal Russian seems main I2P language ))
orignal it means "works"
zzz anyway, let's move on
zzz 4) RIs for connected peers
orignal we need to send updates at least once an hour
zzz I think java used to do it in NTCP 1 ?
orignal need to start i2p locally
zzz as you point out, peer test and relay need it
zzz we can either "push" to peers or send lookups
zzz doesn't really matter much but we need to do the same thing
zzz I think push is easier
orignal I prefer push
zzz then you can send it when it changes if you want
zzz but have to be careful not to send to everybody at once
orignal I prefer by timers
orignal like once in xx minutes
zzz once an hour might be better, yes
orignal random between 40 and 70
zzz or maybe after a half an hour if you are bob (because if you were alice you sent it in the handshake)
zzz I think our shortest expiration right now is 54 minutes
orignal Alice must do it
orignal well no difference
orignal my logic is
zzz both must do it, but maybe bob should do it _sooner_
orignal I try to connect to a router through introducer
orignal I'm Alice
orignal but I have a session for a long time
orignal probably before relay request I shuld send my RI
zzz right, the OP of the issue above had problems in testnet too
orignal if I didn't do it fro a long time
zzz for java it's only a problem with floodfills right now, because floodfills don't refetch before expiration
zzz there is one possible security issue, we have the issue now but this might make it worse
orignal that's why it's important that Alice send before relay request
zzz attack where you send your victim a special RI that's different somehow. different than what you send to ffs
zzz but we dont' prevent it now
orignal but what's a leak?
orignal since it's on ransport level only
zzz maybe you trick victim into a separate network
zzz but I guess you could send a bunch of floodfill RIs to victim too
zzz have to think about it more
zzz I know this was one of jrandom's threats he thought about
orignal then we have to think
zzz if we're not going to accept RI's direct over a connetion, thats a big change and breaks NTCP2 and SSU2, so let's hope not
zzz but, if you want to lookup an RI and you're connected already, should you just ask the peer directly?
zzz and will he answer if not ff?
orignal I would ask FF instead
zzz yeah thats the way we do it now
zzz but is it better to ask direct? I don't even know if we answer if we're not ff, have to check
orignal what's a difference?
zzz we don't ever answer lookups if not ff, I don't think?
zzz well, we answer, but with a DSRM, not with the answer
orignal I don't
orignal I answer with list of closests floodfiils
zzz actually we answer with a DSRM _and_ with our RI, as a "go away, we're not ff anymore"
orignal I need to check
orignal what I do
zzz so I guess in a way we do send our RI :)
orignal probably I don't send out RI
zzz I'll check also and report back later
zzz ok, so we're in basic agreement to use periodic "push" of RI, not "pull", for SSU2
orignal or as I said another option to send it before relay request
zzz I may need other fixes for SSU 1 and NTCP2 to fix the testnet issue
zzz yes, say, if connected > 30 minutes, send before relay request
orignal good idea
orignal let's go this way
zzz ok I'll add some notes to the spec with some alternatives
zzz getting late, anything else on 4) ?
zzz anything else for the meeting?
orignal anoter thing
zzz go ahead
orignal have you heard what happened to Hydra?
zzz the tor market?
orignal major one in Russia
orignal looks like Sybil attack
zzz interesting
orignal German police has started bunch of high-speed relay nodes
orignal and finally got a tunnel went through all their nodes
zzz it got registered on stats.i2p also, I let it through, I didnt know it was a market
orignal and identify location of Hydra server
zzz I don't think it was ever up on i2p though
orignal it has never been in I2P
orignal always .onion
orignal the thing is that business doesn't trust Tor anomore
orignal for .onion adddreses
zzz got registered on stats on march 5
orignal so slowness of I2P is adnatage for anonymity
zzz got taken down a few weeks later
orignal because Tor has mucgh less relay and exit nodes
zzz interesting
orignal I think that one for a fake
zzz maybe, like I said I never saw it up
orignal while every i2p nodes is a transit node
orignal e.g. it's harder to do it in I2P
zzz maybe, maybe not. we're still very small
orignal but bigger than Tor's relay and exit nodes
zzz yup
orignal remeber ordinary Tor users are not relays
zzz thanks everybody, good meeting
orignal they are just users
eyedeekay We have greater relay diversity, but it seems very hard to say if the effect that has on sybil attacks is predictable or uniform
eyedeekay like I bet the German feds have better ability to pull of a sybil attack on Tor than just about anybody else in the world, given how many Tor relays are hosted in Germany they may be in a relatively privileged position
eyedeekay but I doubt that same privilege applies to everybody who has a path they'd like to take over on Tor