#ls2 (irc2p) | #ls2 I2P Protocol Development Discussion - Next Meeting Monday, October 9th 6:30 UTC

orignal hi

eyedeekay meeting today?

zzz 0) hi

zzz sorry, brief technical difficulties

zlatinb hi

eyedeekay hi

zzz what's on the agenda for today?

orignal hi

orignal as usual SSU2

zzz ok thats 1). anything else for the list?

zzz ok then

eyedeekay I don't have anything for this one

zzz 1) SSU2

zzz what's the latest?

orignal I guess fragmented SessionConfirmed complete

zzz have you seen it work?

zzz I haven't seen an outbound connection to your router in a while, so I don't know

orignal no. Bug since I don't see errors probably it works

orignal I will check

zzz hopefully. I'll keep looking and will report if I see one

zzz my RI is now 2037 bytes uncompressed, to keep i2pd happy.

zzz still more than one fragment, for testing

orignal I have changed buffer side to 3K anyway

zzz yeah. when my router goes firewalled, it's another 500 bytes or so

zzz please ask all the other i2pd users to update, so we can get this tested better

orignal will do

orignal basically R4SAS

zzz thanks. On my side, not a lot to report. I updated the spec to remove the "old" fragmentation section

orignal I have implemntetd fragmnetation but haven't tested it

orignal also I need to implement resend right way

orignal e.g. new packet num for each resend not the way how I do now

zzz I plan to get back to peer test in another week or two. until then, not a lot of new code is planned for me

zzz just keeping an eye on the logs looking for problems

zzz anything else on 1) ?

orignal probaby this week

orignal yes

orignal interudcers

orignal where we are with it?

zzz the spec is pretty much done two months ago

zzz it's similar to peer test, but peer test is easier

zzz so I started coding peer test and fixing the spec along the way

orignal yes, but have you implemnted it yet?

zzz no, I haven't coded anything with introducers at all

orignal then need to start

zzz I want to finish peer test first, so I'll be smarter

orignal I will start peer tests soon

zzz I don't see getting to relay for a while. Another month at least

orignal but it's most imprtant part

orignal for firewalled routers

zzz sure

zzz but it's hard to work on both peer test and relay at once, because they're both complicated, but not exactly the same

zzz hurts my brain :(

orignal I know they are complicated

zzz I'll get back to peer test in about a week I think

zzz it's maybe 75% coded, 0% tested

orignal тшсу

orignal nice

zzz anything else on introducers?

orignal no

zzz anything else on SSU2 ?

orignal another thing about fragmnetated message

zzz yes?

orignal I think that most propular case is TunnelGateway with single streaming packet in it

orignal around 2K

zzz sounds right

orignal that part should be optimized for this case

orignal and handle this case special way

zzz have any ideas?

orignal the way how I do at tunnel enpoint

orignal I handle two-fragments message differently than others

zzz I'm not familiar with it. how is it different?

orignal probably will do the same in SSU2

orignal like I eliminate extra lookup for example

zzz anything else on SSU2 ?

orignal no

zzz anything else for the meeting?

orignal but I have another question for the meeting

zzz go ahead

eyedeekay A few months ago we discussed possibly replacing IRC, is there still any interest in that?

orignal when you add a new I2PTunnel in Java through web-console do you make an URL for it?

orignal eyedeekay xmpp.ilita.i2p is up and runnign and people use it a lot ))

zzz let;s do orignal's question first, then eyedeekay

orignal zzz, so one guy had this idea

zzz "make a URL" ? not sure what that means

orignal you click this URL in browser and it adds to your routers

orignal if you have an URL you can share with other people

eyedeekay We have buttons for entering it into the addressbook and copying an addresshelper to share with others in the tunnel manager

orignal like "click on this link aand start using that tunnel"

orignal I don't mean adddresshelper

orignal I mean tunnel description

dr|z3d I think orignal's referring to a client/server tunnel definition/config, eyedeekay. which we don't have.

zzz what kind of tunnel?

orignal an I2PTunnel

orignal say IRC client tunnel for example

orignal for example telegram

zzz ok, so I set up a client tunnel to some server, maybe minecraft or IRC, I want to make it easy for somebody else to do the same thing

zzz do I have that right?

orignal if you want to add a proxy someboby can give you a link with params you click on it adn it adds

dr|z3d that's about the size of it, a url with tunnel configs as a query string.

orignal you don't need to enter params manually

orignal zzz, yes

orignal I want my fiend to start using IRC

eyedeekay Like a handler for setting up new tunnels in a guided/pre-configured way? That sounds pretty cool

zzz great. the answer to your question is "no", we don't have that

orignal I give a libk they click and a tunnel appears

orignal do you think it's worth to do?

zzz it's an interesting idea

zzz sounds like a lot of work: defining and documenting the format, coding the export, coding the import

zzz worth it? hard to say. may be worth investigating further

orignal just list of params

eyedeekay Sounds potentially complicated but really neat, it sounds like a big gain for new users especially

orignal good

zzz sure, but even "just list of params" needs a format

orignal let us try

RN also such links would be nice for setting up a new router with your personal custom tunnels set up easy

dr|z3d useful generally. instead of a list of preconfigured servers, new users could be provided with links for optional services like git etc.

zzz I'm not sure if this is something new users would be doing eyedeekay - sounds more like fairly experienced users

eyedeekay New users might not be making the links and sharing them but they might be receiving them

dr|z3d zzz: presented on a wizard page, easy for new users..

zzz note that nobody's explicitly said this should be java/i2pd cross-router compatible. If so, that makes it a lot harder

orignal it's not necessary

orignal different web-consoles

dr|z3d a tick box selection of services etc presented, that's how I see it being useful to new users, aside from being able to share urls.

zzz note that we already have an i2ptunnel wizard. I haven't looked at it in years

orignal yes I know

zzz as I said, nice idea, would take more research to get a better sense of how popular it might be

zzz anything else on tunnel config export/import?

orignal no

zzz 3) IRC - eyedeekay

orignal I think IRC replacement now

dr|z3d not matrix, please, not matrix :)

eyedeekay Well that's unfortunate

zzz eyedeekay, this is your topic, what would you like to discuss?

eyedeekay But mostly I was concerned if there was still any interest

orignal as I said we use xmpp

eyedeekay I've been saying for a while that Dendrite was easy to port to I2P, including OLM and Federation, a couple weeks ago I did it, if there is interest in trying out Matrix I was going to approach the #irc2p channel operators about it

zzz I think that's cart before horse

zzz if you have something you like, put up a server and invite people to use it

zzz if it's better than something else, people will migrate

eyedeekay I do so I will

zzz if everybody stops using IRC, then we can suggest to the ops they can shut it down

eyedeekay Well as a first step I was considering the idea of bridging some of our channels into matrix

zzz there's no reason to top-down declare that irc should or will be replaced, at least not in general. Maybe for a particular use case (meetings?)

dr|z3d given that matrix can coexist with irc, no reason to shut down irc, but offering the option of irc -or- matrix doesn't seem like a bad idea.

eyedeekay That's where I would like to start dr|zed, basically make the matrix and IRC versions of channels talk to eachother

eyedeekay Not all channels, possibly just #ls2, #i2p-dev and #irc2p itself to start with

dr|z3d seems like a good idea, eyedeekay, will likely appeal to people who prefer browser chat to antiquated clients, with all the inline media advantages, emojis etc that matrix offers.

eyedeekay As I understand it, I need to ask permission from the channel operators to do that

dr|z3d if you're bridging networks, you also need ircop permission.

zzz I suggest you start before that.

zzz first step is getting it running and ensuring it's secure and anonymity-protecting

zzz bridging is not step 1

eyedeekay OK. I'll start without bridging

zzz no charge for a new server on the network, good thing, you have tried dozens of things:)

eyedeekay Yeah if it were costly I would be in big trouble

zzz keep it up, fun to see what sticks

R4SAS for me, matrix is too heavy

R4SAS both server and client part

R4SAS also it's clients is bunch of trackable stuff

dr|z3d yeah, that's my issue with matrix, R4SAS, as pretty as it may be. as an alternative to irc, not a replacement, it seems like a no-brainer.

eyedeekay Element is pretty bad but dendrite's kind of ground-up designed for overlay networks

dr|z3d the heavy part. haven't dived into the tracking aspect, but it's heavily reliant on js.

zzz y'all can keep going but I'm going to duck out

zzz thanks everybody

R4SAS xmpp is good thing, but in that case we have promplem with spam, malicious content in attachments

R4SAS eyedeekay: dendrite is such because one of developers is Yggdrasil developer

eyedeekay I thought as much

dr|z3d dendrite is still matrix, though, so not a total departure.

R4SAS so basically dendrite developed for ygg

eyedeekay I am definitely a beneificiary of that

eyedeekay mine doesn't even need to speak clearnet unless you tell it to, it doesn't know what to do with an IP address and when you give it one it always falls back to Tor or fails closed on the federation side

eyedeekay and on the API side it's just a regular service to us

R4SAS what about client?

R4SAS client side is whole bunch of js, no?

eyedeekay Clients are trouble but gomuks supports olm and is a TUI

eyedeekay Element is a mess, unlikely to be cleaned up soon on desktop but potentially doable on Android because all the requests to the server are done with okHTTP

eyedeekay Less escape chance or javascript in that version

R4SAS yup, but still too heavy

eyedeekay And of course, like everything there's a libpurple plugin

R4SAS for xmpp I recently (last month) done conversations fork and implemented I2P support in it

R4SAS that's for android

R4SAS on windows here pidgin, gajim

R4SAS linux - much more

eyedeekay pidgin and gajim are libpurple clients, as long as their matrix plugin honors an HTTP proxy they will work fine

R4SAS gajim uses libpurple?

R4SAS hmm, where?

eyedeekay Oh I was confusing it with adium

eyedeekay my bad

eyedeekay Anyhow, light, reasonably auditable Matrix clients that don't use Javascript or even much C, while also supporting olm, do exist too, after looking I found this one: github.com/eyedeekay/gomuks/commit/d021c3acb4277f8d60871db8b509f024df9dbcd9#diff-2873f79a86c0d8b3335cd7731b0ecf7dd4301eb19a82ef7a1cba7589b5252261

eyedeekay I haven't looked as hard at Android clients yet