#ls2 (irc2p) | #ls2 I2P Protocol Development Discussion - Next Meeting Monday, October 9th 6:30 UTC

eyedeekay OK they're not perfect, but they're there which is more than I can say for the past 10 months.

eyedeekay gitlab-runners are back for the time being.

zlatinb eyedeekay: is it pulling the docker base images every time? looks like it from the logs

zlatinb also I have configured the muwire runner to upload a code coverage report as an artifact. But I can't find where to visualize them... do you need to enable some setting perhaps?

zlatinb oh looks like they're only for MRs.. that sux

eyedeekay zlatinb yeah there's some kind of issue I'm still working on re: docker-in-docker

eyedeekay Which is why it's pulling docker:stable which is causing the remaining issues

eyedeekay I also had to enable the gitlab container registry but I haven't exposed it to the rest of the internet yet.

eyedeekay When I do we can use it

Xeha eyedeekay: dind with shared socket?

eyedeekay Yes if I'm understanding it all correctly

eyedeekay Been scouring their forums, this is pretty close to what I'm seeing: forum.gitlab.com/t/error-during-connect-post-http-docker-2375-v1-40-auth-dial-tcp-lookup-docker-on-169-254-169-254-no-such-host/28678/5

Anomaly i think microsoft word is the best ide for programming

Anomaly how are you eyedeekay ?

eyedeekay OK. Just trying to make sure I have all of my projects ready for release time

eyedeekay I've got to update libraries across all my plugins and still may have a few adjustments to the CSS on proxy error and new install wizard

Anomaly sounds stressful

eyedeekay Nah it's only rough this time because my checklist got a lot longer this cycle

eyedeekay Sort of making the new one this week

eyedeekay And also I still don't know why goSam.client.debug=true is required for goSam to work on i2pd, which is why I have to do all the library updates, otherwise I can usually just leave that part unless I add a feature that I want to use in an app

Anomaly how long is a cycle usually ?

eyedeekay ~3-4 months. About a quarter of a year.

Anomaly interesting

Anomaly i2pd is c++ or a c language right ?

eyedeekay C++ but there's part of it with a C binding, which you can generate bindings to other languages for with SWIG

Anomaly oh ok

Anomaly lol i wish i was a good programmer

eyedeekay I've been increasing my use of C++ i2pd from Go a lot this cycle, which is pretty easy once you get it set up

Anomaly im invested in my own projects...

Anomaly thats interesting

eyedeekay One needs to give a little though to the lifecycle of the embedded i2pd router but it gets right out of your way

eyedeekay Here's sort of the minimum-example of how to use it: github.com/eyedeekay/go-i2pd

Anomaly ok

Anomaly lol you use tmux ?

Anomaly i never invested the time to learn it, but it looks interesting to me

eyedeekay It's handy for splitting terminals but basically useless if you don't learn how to configure your keyboard shortcuts

Anomaly ill keep that in mind

eyedeekay My recommendation, should you choose to use it in that way is to make the defaults a little bit "intelligent"

eyedeekay in that you should probably do what you can to discover a usable I2P router on the host before running the embedded I2P router

eyedeekay Otherwise you sometimes end up with embedded routers racing with the systemwide router to open a port, different keys in different working directories, it can make a bit of a mess

zzz what's on the agenda for today?

orignal SSU2

orignal and torrents on android

orignal from my side

eyedeekay Not really an agenda item, but I wanted to ping orignal about this PR: github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd/pull/1728

zzz ssu2 is 1), android torrents is 2)

zzz eyedeekay, it's either for the meeting or it isn't, your choice

orignal merged

eyedeekay Good enough for me, no need for the agenda item

zzz ok then

zzz 1) SSU2

zzz orignal, how about you give your updates / status and then I will

orignal so I have have a question how we decrypt header

orignal once we receive a message where we get intro key from?

orignal based on endpoint?

zzz for almost all cases, the first header key is your intro key

orignal huh?

orignal please explain

orignal first 8 bytes is connection id

zzz right, and the key for that is your intro key, as published in the netdb

orignal no, it's Bob's key

orignal if I'm Alice

orignal so I need to know Bob's intro key

zzz oh, you said you receive a message, I thought you were bob

orignal say I'm Alice and rfeceive SessionCreated

zzz if you're alice sending a session request to bob, you got bob's intro key from the netdb

orignal yes it's clear

orignal but when I'm Alice and receive some packet how I decrypt?

zzz that's the exception. if you're alice and receive session created, the key for that is bob's intro key

zzz when you're alice, the first header key is always your intro key, except for session created and retry

zzz in those cases, it's bob's intro key

orignal but how do I know bob's key?

orignal by endpoint where a packet came from?

zzz yes

orignal good

orignal basically the way we do in SSU now

zzz correct

orignal next question

orignal what destination connection is for?

orignal if we always know endpoint

zzz the idea is to make inbound classification of packets much easier

zzz so you always try with your intro key first. that will find 99% of the sessions

zzz then fallback to lookup only pending sessions by endpoint

orignal yes, that's clear

orignal got it

zzz with connection id, you find the connection of a session even if the other end's IP changes. that's the main benefit

zzz super

orignal wait

orignal so I map sessions not by endoint like I do know

orignal but by this connection id

orignal I decrypt 8 bytes

orignal and then try to find session by connection id

zzz that's what I recommend, yes

orignal btw, how I know if decryption was successive or now?

orignal because I always decrypt to some 8 bytes

orignal it's chacha and xor

orignal not chacha/poly

zzz you don't. but then you decrypt the _next_ 8 bytes with the correct key for that connection.

zzz if the next 8 bytes are garbage, then you know everything failed

orignal they might not be garbage just inccorect

orignal so I know for sure when decrypt payload

zzz sure, but after that there is always a chacha/poly payload

zzz correct

orignal no more question for now

orignal the status is

orignal implement SessionRequest encryption

orignal not working on decryption of incoming packets

zzz great

zzz those were good questions too

zzz my status:

zzz still just working on test code

zzz I got retry working

orignal have you recached data phase yet?

zzz yes, data phase is working

zzz I got ack blocks working too

zzz I added a token request message so you can ask for a token without doing DH

zzz I'm starting to think more about packet numbering, because the proposal is a little inconsistent

zzz I'm starting to think about peer test and relay

orignal data with fragmentation ,etc.?

zzz I should be able to do testing with you soon

zzz my fragmentation code is sortof working, sortof buggy

orignal once I'm, done

zzz I do send both unfragmented and fragmented messages, and acks, in my test code

orignal but I'm making progress

zzz great

orignal eyedeekay we need you

eyedeekay We trying to put XD into an Android app?

orignal basically this question came from our Turkmen friend

orignal he wants to run both i2p and torrent client on his phone

orignal the question is about I2CP

orignal should we allow 127.0.0.1 connections?

eyedeekay As far as I can tell the benefits really outweigh the risks

orignal because zzz said that android local sockets can work between same developer's apps only

orignal zzz suggested to discuss it with you

eyedeekay Yeah you have to at least be using the same namespace and signing with the same keys, it's very limiting

orignal because you are the main android dev

eyedeekay There is no such limitation on TCP sockets

zzz orignal, what I2CP android torrent app are you proposing to use?

orignal what do you think? should we allow it in config?

orignal e.g. TCP/IP sockets

eyedeekay The only one I know of is BiglyBT, and I'm pretty sure it uses a hardcoded local socket or something, I don't seem to be able to get it to work with a TCP socket

eyedeekay In our app it's behind 1 settings menu and off by default. Not hard to enable but not on by default.

orignal zzz, Vuze

zzz eyedeekay, are you sure that biglybt on android supports the i2p plugin and external i2p router?

eyedeekay I'm pretty sure that it doesn't, actually

orignal e.g. BiglyBT

zzz if it doesn't then there's nothing to talk about

orignal seems it does but works the same way as for desktop

orignal zzz, we discuss ideas in general

orignal should i2cp be capable to use TCP/IP on android

eyedeekay On the desktop there is a way to configure how it connects to I2CP and also there's no limitation on the local socket unless you make one

zzz sure, but we should know how realistic the idea is

orignal the idea is

eyedeekay If it's just a matter of adding an item to enter the I2CP address, or switch between embedded and external, then it's probably not a huge chore on the BiglyBT side

orignal should we allow an external android app to connect trough I2CP

eyedeekay Ours is off-by-default, on-by-configuration, but SAM is on-by-default

zzz I think it's a security risk. I also think SAM is a security risk, but I lost that argument to eyedeekay

orignal SAM is not a question

orignal only I2CP

zzz right. just explaing that I'm both anti-SAM on android, and anti-I2CP-on-sockets on android

eyedeekay Well some of the issues are pretty much identical

orignal and how do you suggest to solve this problem?

zzz isn't there a i2pd android app?

orignal what do you mean?

zzz does i2pd have an android app?

orignal why?

orignal does i2pd works on adnroid or what?

zzz because if you do support i2pd on android, you could offer i2cp

orignal since 2016

zzz right, that's my question

orignal and in f-droid now

eyedeekay The issue I have with *not* doing it is that it leaves Android applications hanging with only our I2PTunnel proxies to connect to

zzz that's what I thought

orignal eyedeekay and what should torrents users do?

eyedeekay Some of them embed another I2P router of their own, then start it instead, now this small device has 2 I2P routers

zzz the correct solution is a i2psnark android app, released by us, that connects to the i2cp local socke

zlatinb I think if we want better adoption we should have i2psnark with embedded router

zlatinb if I ever decide to port muwire to android it will ship with an embedded router

zzz disagree zlatinb. with Android intents, a i2psnark app will launch the router app. that's the way it's designed

zzz no app should embed the router

zlatinb making the user install two apps is a major hurdle

zzz not that major

orignal so you want to leave I2CP as "internal" I2P protocol?

eyedeekay I don't care if they embed the router, I just don't want them to start a new one if one is already there

zzz orignal, what do you plan to do in the i2pd android app?

zlatinb I think it is. Ofc it's possible to first check if an existing router is available if such thing is possible on android

eyedeekay It is

zzz yes, with intents

orignal usually people use http proxy

orignal people use i2ptunnels for irc

orignal etc.

orignal and gostcoin through SAM

zzz do you plan to enable i2cp on a 127.0.0.1 socket in i2pd android?

orignal that's the subject of discussion

orignal for now I use local sockets

orignal but as you said it will never work

orignal and that's why it didn't work with Bote

orignal because different deleopers

orignal so for me no worth to use local sockets at all for I2CP

orignal either exlude it completely

orignal of listen 127.0.0.1

zzz str4d decided to use local sockets for security. then the permissions model changed and now needs the same developer

zzz but the security model hasn't changed for regular sockets. I still think it's a bad ide

zzz idea

orignal anyway the result is that I2CP would never work for i2pd-android

orignal is there are way we can add some authenication to I2CP?

zzz for starters, we need to know for sure if the biglybt android app supports i2p

eyedeekay It does turn Android into a walled-garden scenario at best, but the obvious solution is to give the user an option to enable it

zzz i2cp supports username/password

zzz as does sam

orignal good

orignal then what's a question

orignal we should require it for android and that's all

orignal btw, is there standalone build of i2psnark for android?

eyedeekay zzz BiglyBT has a buried option to use I2P, it's under an advanced-mode checkbox then buried at the bottom of a "Network Config" menu

eyedeekay No there isn't

zzz no orignal there is no i2psnark for android, standalone or not

zzz eyedeekay, does android enable username/password for SAM by default, with randomly generated defaults?

eyedeekay No it does not

zzz I'm trying to find where we had this discussion about sam on android. maybe a trac ticket or gitlab MR or issue. would have been two years ago?

eyedeekay Making it so would be OK, probably not in the next 4 days though

eyedeekay It was on zzz.i2p IIRC

orignal how difficult to build it?

zzz orignal, there's no code for it

zzz no UI at all

orignal eyedeekay turkmen has found that item and was able to trun it on

orignal but it seems it's just desktop plugin

orignal zzz, it's Java code

orignal I don't understand the problem

orignal you mean there is no main activity or what?

zzz orignal, the desktop UI is HTML on top of jetty, but there's no jetty web server on android

eyedeekay found it: zzz.i2p/topics/2988?page=1#p16213 #22 was my analysis

eyedeekay For SAM

orignal I see now

zzz you'd have to write a native UI from scratch, or hack it on top of webview

orignal you need jetty

zzz correct

zzz or port it to webview

zzz good find eyedeekay

orignal webview is a good idea

orignal we use it in i2pd android

zzz i think snark would look like crap in a webview, it's designed for a wide screen

zzz you'd have to completely rewrite the css

orignal we need a hedaless version

eyedeekay That's an interesting idea

orignal just with config files

orignal then how I2P works for android without Jetty?

zzz I've said this for 10 years: It might be easier to take an existing torrent android app and adopt it for i2p

zzz than to add a native UI on top of snark

eyedeekay I was thinking a notification area icon and an RPC interface, all but one of the exising torrent clients on android are actually RPC clients talking to remotes by default anyway

zzz orignal, i2p android has a native UI. No HTML anywhere

orignal let me formulate differently

orignal how has implemented I2P UI for android?

orignal and why it's not possible to do the same for snark?

eyedeekay It's possible, just extensive

zzz native. I did it, then str4d worked on it

zzz correct. possible? definitely. easy? No

orignal I think it was more work than fort snark

zzz our android UI is very simple

orignal it;s not easy

orignal but this about demand

orignal people want to use torrents on android

zzz we need to find somebody to do the work. it's not going to be me

orignal ofc

orignal just asking

zzz who is your android guy?

orignal so what's your recommendation?

orignal Hypn

eyedeekay The path of least resistance is still pretty much XD in a webview the way I did BRB, that way you only need SAM

zzz Nurp?

orignal no

orignal he is Hypnosis now

zzz got it

zzz eyedeekay, there's an XD android app?

orignal do you think we should exlude I2CP for android or swith to 127.0.0.1?

orignal XD is go

eyedeekay Yes, not sure if maintained

orignal it could be build for android easily

zzz so isn't XD the answer then, if it still works?

eyedeekay Even if it doesn't it's probably easy to fix, just a sec I've got the repository bookmarked

zzz orignal, I suggest you read the discussion at zzz.i2p/topics/2988?page=1#p16213 before making a decision

orignal will do

eyedeekay Shoot I guess I don't have it bookmarked anymore

zlatinb psi's gh handle is majestrate

zlatinb if I ever port muwire to android it's going to be with a native UI

zzz I don't see a lot of answers to the possible security issues. I don't see that I ever said yes. That's why I'm thinking I just lost the argument to eyedeekay

orignal zlatinb btw how aout muwire for android?

zzz but I really don't remember

orignal another use case

zlatinb orignal: someone needs to want to write a GUI, the core should work

orignal but same problem with I2CP

eyedeekay github.com/wipedlifepotato/XD-android

zlatinb no, because I'll include an embedded router :-P

zzz boooooooooo

zzz don't do it

orignal a bad idea

zlatinb unless it's *really* easy to use intents to launch an external one, embedded it will be

zzz not really feeling like you're listening to my points on this

orignal more more people have a phone only

zzz but it's hypothetical only so I'll let it go

zlatinb I already use embedded for desktops so the code is written

zzz eyedeekay, orignal, can you two please test XD-android with i2pd and java i2p and report back next week on whether it's a good solution?

orignal if I knew how to build it for android ))

zzz here's an apk github.com/wipedlifepotato/XD-android/releases/tag/1.1a

orignal lol

eyedeekay I dunno I kinda wanna go with zzz on this one zlatinb, it's probably not a huge deal on a Pixel but on a 50 dollar samsung burner it starts to get obstructive

orignal do you know who is wipedlefipotato?))

eyedeekay No idea

zzz sounds familiar

orignal Plaz

zlatinb eyedeekay: what about an embedded router is a big deal? If intents work as you say they do it's just larger apk download by a few megs

zzz well, if we don't trust the author, then it's not a solution, no need to test

eyedeekay Bummer, glad I knew in advance

eyedeekay well, found out

eyedeekay thanks orignall

zzz unless you want to audit the code

eyedeekay It's having both of them running at the same time that seems to cause problems

orignal I would prefer to build psi's XD

eyedeekay It's straightforward to turn psi's XD into a .aar and turn it into a library, I can re-do it in a weekend

zlatinb github.com/majestrate/XD

zzz getting late, anything else on 2) ?

orignal no

eyedeekay Nothing from me

zzz happy valentines day, I love you all :)

eyedeekay Thanks zzz, <3

zzz 1722 lines of code in XD android, 1182 of which is some ini file editor. that leaves only 650, easily auditable, should you care to build it yourself

zzz looks like just a webview UI

zzz zlatinb, re: intents, I believe that the intent will bring the user directly to the play store i2p app install dialog if the router app isn't installed

zzz it's all done for you, it's part of the client-side lib

zlatinb that kind of sucks actually

zlatinb is there a way to just test if an app is installed without going to the play store?

zlatinb don't worry about it for now, if I ever decide to learn android UI then I'll look into it carefully

zlatinb and it may not be possible at all (w/o a Great Rewrite) because the core uses some dynamic language features of Groovy

zzz see lib/helper/src/main/java/net/i2p/android/ui/I2PAndroidHelper.java in i2p.android.base

zzz I don't believe there's a general-purpose way to see if an app is installed

zzz unless it has a Service, then you attempt to bind to it

zzz the general-purpose way sounds bad for privacy, doesn't sound like it should be allowed, but I'm just guessing here

zzz you can certainly test by deleting the router app and then trying to start bote to see the workflow